In 1992, a young man who had never played a guitar in his life, picked a guitar for the first time and decided he was going to be the next George Benson—a tall, laughable dream, considering the guitar wizardry and virtuosity of George Benson.

It sounded surreal but the reality today is that the name Kunle Ayo is now a household name globally, a man whose sweet jazz playing style has been compared to that of his great guitar heroes like Earl Klugh and Norman Brown. Thanks to the tenacious and can-do Nigerian spirit in this man.
Hey guys, you need to hear Kunle Ayo play and you would agree with me that he is Nigeria’s undisputed tsar of the guitar whose modern jazz style is steeped in Nigerian folklore and gospel music. Yet Kunle Ayo is like a prophet of jazz who has honour abroad but is not appreciated at the home front. From his South Africa base, he recently came to Nigeria and visited The Sun newspaper house where I cornered him for a chat on jazz music in my office. He was surprised to find me playing the CD of John Scofield, an eclectic jazz guitarist who along with Al Dimeola and Stanley Jordan, are three of my favourites jazz guitarists. This is how the conversation went:

How did your guitar journey start?
The guitar journey started for me in 1992 when I decided to learn to play the guitar and I didn’t know anything about the guitar but the love for the instrument grew over the years. And by 1996, I had already started working with Chief Ebenezer Obey. Four years into my playing, I had already started working with that great giant of Nigerian music who showed me a lot of stuff about music and generally the business side of it, of course the theory side of music. He had a music director then, Niyi Adams who was really my mentor, my teacher. By 1997 I decided to go into full time music.

Is guitar an instrument you can teach yourself?
Yes, it’s very possible to teach yourself. However, you need to then be around good people who would show you stuff. There are things that you can discover on your own but it would take longer period than when you have somebody who shows you how to do it. It is always easier and better when you connect with one individual who then helps you to say: This is how a chord is formed. But because of my curiosity, I bought a lot of books and went around people that helped me to be a better guitarist. And that sped up my journey into playing guitar.

What were the early difficulties?
In those days, you had to travel far to find internet. It wasn’t like now. But then one of the problems we had was that there were no stores that would then sell you materials that can help you. Unlike America, S.A., England where you can find ready-made materials in the store. Stuff like: ‘Guitar Learning For Beginners,’ intermediate and masters guitar books. We don’t have that kind of opportunity here. You can’t even get the right strings at Alaba Market, they sell you fake strings. They didn’t give us the opportunity to grow fast enough. All this helped me in life to be resilient, pushing forward. Because when we got to South Africa, we had that problem too. Not the problem of music but now the problem of culture and social acceptability. The feeling was: This Nigerian coming to our doors, he doesn’t even speak our language, why should we open our doors for him? But all the resilience I learnt from the time I was learning how to play the guitar pushed me beyond all of the problems and I decided: this is what I am going to do and I am going to do it, regardless. When I first started, I didn’t even have an amplifier to play with. I was playing, I would put my ears to the guitar and I did that for years before I started acquiring the equipment that we have now. It’s been a beautiful journey.

How did the journey go after the Ebenezer Obey years?
Having worked with Obey, it laid a beautiful foundation for me—to understand the rudiments of Nigerian music. And when the need for me to play jazz grew, I realized I didn’t just want to play rudimentary music, I wanted to do more. I wanted to play complex jazz solos. And that pushed me to the streets. That then propelled to go into stores to look for George Benson’s tapes in those days. You go to a deejay who had records and then he would dub it into a tape for you and then at night I would play my tape and stop it and ask myself: What did he play there? You stop it and you try to look for those notes. All of that helped us. For me, it was just a desire to be better. I got a point where I was good enough but I felt there was more to me playing guitar. And I looked for it.

What is special about George Benson?
It was first Earl Klugh and Jonathan Butler, because of the sweet sound. I didn’t understand George at that time because he was too fast for me. So it was Earl Klugh and Jonathan Butler. They were easier to access. Smooth sounds, they don’t play too fast, you can pick their notes. After a while, I started getting bored with those two again. I thought they were now slow for me. Now, my hands were active, I want to do more. Then Norman Brown and Paul Jackson Jr. And who else was there?

Did you try Wes Montgomery?
We didn’t have access to Wes Montgomery until I got to South Africa. I also listened to Lee Ritenour. At that time, he was still with Foreplay. He also had beautiful sound that I tried to emulate. And then when I grew into myself and I could play a little bit, George was now the next challenge to conquer. Till date I am still trying to figure out that man. He is just a phenomenal guitar player.

Who are your guitar heroes?
From home, it starts with Victor Uwaifo. In the days of Victor Uwaifo, he played fantastically well. He was one of those people that first played jazz and jazz notes in highlife setting, even though they didn’t know what they were doing. If you score a song like Guitar Boy, those were jazz notes he was playing in that highlife atmosphere.

Is that why you paid homage to him in your Joromi piece?
Yes. It’s one of the reasons. I had to do Joromi just to say ‘Victor, you gave us beautiful music and this is my interpretation of it.’ And of course, King Sunny Ade. He had a beautiful sound too. Chief Ebenezer Obey didn’t play a lot of guitar, but the style he played, he could play it well. And that helped me.

What were you playing for Obey?
I was playing rhythm guitar. His son, Tolu Obey was playing lead. At that time he had become born again and had started his church in 1992, 93. And I was the first rhythm guitarist for him as a gospel artist.
Yeah, we were talking about your guitar heroes.
Now, that moved on to the likes of Jonathan Butler, Earl Klugh and all these guys I mention earlier. And fortunately for me, recently, I have met some of them and dined with them, played with them.

Like who?
Jonathan Butler was in South Africa. Even before then, I was in America three years ago and I went to his house. I had met Dave Koz a year before and Dave Koz and I became friends. He is a beautiful saxophone player. So, when I was in LA, he now called Jonathan and said: Hey, I’ve got a friend here from South Africa. Are you at home? So, I drove down and we had a lovely time. He didn’t even want to give me a chance first because he didn’t know me but when we went into his studio and I brought out my guitar and we started jamming, he said woooow! So, we became friends from there. And when he came to South Africa with Oleta Adams and Kirk for a gig, he invited me upstage to do a song with them.

Jonathan Butler and Earl Klugh sound alike? In what way are they different musically speaking?
The sound is different. Earl Klugh is sweeter. Jonathan is also sweet but he is African. You can hear the Africanness in his sound. He has that South African rhythm and everything is there. And Jonathan is a singer. Earl Klugh is just a player. Jonathan sings beautifully and he plays beyond just acoustic guitar. He plays electric too. So, he’s got varied sounds in different songs. He is more like George Benson but in his own style.

Did you meet Earl Klugh?
Yes, I did. Every year different artistes come into South Africa to come to do a gig and fortunately for me, I am always on the bill. So, during the workshop we get to chat, we get to talk and all of that. Some of them appear on the same stage with me, some of them we just meet backstage. Earl Klugh, I saw, and I really appreciated him and I told him: ‘You know what, you inspired me.’

What was the turning point in your life as a jazz guitarist?
I think it started in 2004 when I was brought back into the country to come do the MUSON festival. And at that year they brought Al Jarreau. And I had to open for Al Jarreau. And that was a moment for me. It started then. Everything started happening from there. I met Al Jarreau, we had a lovely time, I came back to South Africa, won KORA Award, won Channel O Award, and then the same year Earl Klugh came, a year after that I met Dave Koz. It’s been a fantastic journey ever since.

When you meet these jazz heroes, what do you ask them?
Usually I just compliment them. I tell them what I feel about them. I really do not ask a lot of questions. I think I have answers to a lot of questions I had growing up. I usually thank them for the beautiful music they gave me which has shaped me to be the guitarist that I am today. I am a product of all these great artistes.

How unique is your sound?
I think we have created a sound that speaks. Even when I am backing somebody, when I play people always look my direction. We have mastered that art of then being a voice. The guitar for me has become my voice, apart from singing. The guitar has become my sound. When you hear my sound, you know this is Kunle Ayo. You can differentiate me from every other guitarist in town right now.

What is your sound?
I can’t explain it. You have to hear it. People who follow Kunle Ayo and the great guys in South Africa, they know my sound. It’s got that Nigerianness to it. Even though I may play a George Benson sound, somewhere along the line, you would hear, either from the melody, that this guy sounds like George Benson, but there is something about him.

How did you cultivate the style?
I think it’s practice and the experience I have gathered over the years, starting with Obey. That gave me a beautiful foundation into understanding our grassroots music. Hence I call my style juju jazz, from the point of view of the fact that I try to take a simple song, I fused that juju sound which started as highlife. I don’t know whether you have heard my song Moderation which is a folksong. I did a jazz version of it and you would not know that it’s a tale story because of the way I took it. I don’t know how I do it. I just play and when it sounds right, we stop and say yes, this is the sound we are looking for.

What brand of guitar do you play?
I play a semi-acoustic guitar. It’s a hollow body guitar. Gibson.

What kind of instrument is a guitar?
It’s a sexy instrument. It’s a very beautiful, definitive instrument that just speaks, if you know how to make it speak. It’s a beautiful instrument, I love it so much, I can go on and on about my guitar. A guitar is an instrument that stands out. It’s an instrument that can play harmony, that can play melody, unlike the saxophone that can play only melody and cannot play chords. So, guitar can do both. Just like a keyboard can play the melody and play the chord. So, guitar can be a leading instrument as well as a backing instrument.

Were you into Jimi Hendrix?
I wasn’t into Jimi Hendrix because at the time when I started playing, rock music wasn’t big in Nigeria. But having lived in South Africa for a while, I met a lot of white people who then introduced me to Jimi and it made me wonder how he played these lines in those days. I mean Jimi would play alone and you would think it’s 55,000 people. So I definitely respect Jimi a lot as a guitarist. Even though he is gone, yet his music still lives on.

Are you into Al Dimeola and Stanley Jordan?
Mike, you definitely know your music. Al Dimeola and Stanley Jordan are those eclectic jazz guitarists whose sounds are out of this world. It is not centred but it is just there.

What took you to South Africa?
The need to grow. I worked with Lagbaja for about two years and one of the trips that we made to Brazil, we had to go through South Africa. And when we finished the tour in Brazil, we came back home and I still had a valid visa to South Africa, so I went back to go see what was going to happen. I was in the studio working on my first album—and that was in 2001. In 2002, somehow, miraculously, I found someone who was going to release my music through Universal Music and papers were signed, the deal was done and I was signed to Universal on that first album and the second album. And that informed my going down there to pursue a career in music.

How did you conquer South Africa?
I don’t know. I think it’s the grace of God. I think the tenacious spirit that one took from here—the fact that I don’t give up. Whatever it is that I do, I don’t give up regardless of the obstacles. We just stood the test of time because we had great challenges when we first got there. Less work to do and you had to pay bills. And it’s not like here where you have to pay bills every year. There, it’s every month. You have to pay your house bills, you have to feed yourself, you have a car, you have to drive yourself around. So, it was a big challenge at the beginning. But over time, people then started knowing us and started giving us gigs and we just grew from there.

Are you a success story?
In all modesty, I am a success story by the day. I think every day for me is just getting better. We achieved a number of stuff. When we look at the accolades, the people we have met, the people we have played with, it’s fantastic. Recently, I played with Salif Keita. Salif Keita is a huge artist in Africa. And the way he was shouting my name on stage is humbling. Definitely, I am not going to even light myself and say I am trying to be humble. Yes, we are getting there. But I am saying that there is more that we can conquer, there is more that is out there for us. So, in all humility, I must say that we thank God for what we have and we hope to get more.

How do you define success then?
For me, success is what I am doing right now. Success is playing with the people I have always looked up to. Success is being compared in a way to great names such as George Benson, such as Victor Uwaifo. Such for me is reaching my dreams, which is to play around the world. And we are getting there. Definitely, we are on the path to great success.

What are the keys to success in guitar playing?
For a guitar player, it depends on what you do. You could be a guitar player who wants to play in a band and you could be a guitar player who wants to be in the forefront, who wants to own a band. So basically, it depends on what you want. But definitely, being very strict with yourself and willing to practise a lot would give you success. Any instrumentalist has to practise. A lot of us are talented. Yes, talent is good but you need to nurture the talent. Jonathan Butler told me that he practises about six hours every day. He wakes up in the morning, does his prayers, goes into the studio and he just plays and sings and plays and sings six hours every day before anything else. And a lot of us would blame it on NEPA, we would blame it on this and that, but to succeed in life, you don’t have any excuse. We have to just keep pushing. Your dream should drive you. It’s up to you. Whatever you see yourself to be, that’s what you would be. So, if your dream is big and the drive to get there is even bigger, definitely you would get there.

What’s your typical day like?
Because I do TV now, I don’t have enough time for the guitar. I used to practise six to ten hours every day when I started from 1996, 97. I used to practise a lot. But now I try to touch my guitar at least an hour every day. Today, I do a lot of things. I do TV, I have a studio, I am a producer so I have to get into the studio and then make music for people, mix their songs, go shoot and all that, so I don’t have enough time to spend with the guitar. But I try every day. At least 30 minutes to one hour—just to check make sure I am at par.

How did you get into TV?
My TV career started in Nigeria before I left. I had a programme on Channel 10 every Monday morning. It used to be called Video 10, every Monday morning by 10 o’clock. Comfort Okoronkwo was my producer. She saw me somewhere and she said she was looking for a compere for her programme and I said I can try it. And she threw me into deep waters. I had to interview one actor. I had never done it before. It turned out well and I did it for about two years. I enjoyed all the moments. So, when I went to South Africa and some of my friends wanted to start a programme on DSTV, they came to my studio to do the auditioning for the people. So, after that they said they were still looking for a male anchor and I said to them I used to anchor programmes way back in Nigeria. So, they put me on camera and when they took it to DSTV, they loved me instantly. And that’s how I got the job. I wouldn’t call it a job. For me, it wasn’t a money-making thing. It’s just a flair. I just had a flair for it. It’s been three years, four years now since I have been doing it. I have anchored with so many ladies, starting from Tandeka and then Diana and then now it’s Lesedi. The programme is called Africa Awakes. Anybody who has a DSTV in South Africa now Africa Awakes. They love Nigerian programmes, so they watch the channel. Ironically, they don’t have access to DSTV in South Africa like we do here in Nigeria.

What is failure?
Failure is when I stop to try. Failure is when I give up on life. Failure is when I throw in the towel and say that I have done all, there is nothing else to do. That is failure.

Is failure in your dictionary?
I don’t think so. I feel and see and sense a whole lot of stuff that would happen, so I don’t see failure inside me at all.

Have you experienced failure in life?
Setbacks, yes. But not failure. Setback is momentary circumstances that doesn’t allow you to get to where you want to get to. But if you stay long enough and you plan and you keep attempting, it would work. Somehow, someday, somewhere, it would work.

Tell us about the Cape Town Jazz Festival.
The first Cape Town I did was with my friends in 2004. The band is called Loading Zone. I jammed with in 2004 and it was beautiful. Then 2005, I did a project—an India-Africa project: Ragga Africa. That saw me go to India in 2008. In 2005, we did the project and it was beautiful. We were hoping to take it far, but unfortunately, everybody in the band was busy. About three or four Indians came, then me I am the only Nigerian, one Mozambique fellow, two South African, we came together, we formed the band and it was phenomenal. It was beautiful. And then last year, 2008, I did my set as Kunle Ayo at the Cape Town Jazz Festival. Hopefully next year when we come with a new album, we’ll do it again.

What is jazz?
Jazz is what you want it to be. Jazz is your interpretation of life and of love and of music. Jazz started when our forefathers were taken from our land to the foreign land and they came together and just had a jam. There were Cameroonians and Senegalese and Nigerians and everybody came together to play. You come with you own instrument and you play something and everybody just started feeling and the music evolved into jazz. It evolved so much that today we have eclectic jazz, rock jazz, acid jazz, contemporary jazz, bepop. So jazz is all styles. Some people think it’s just instrumental. No, jazz could be vocal. People like Billie Holiday, Ella Fitzgerald, all these great singers, they define jazz. Recently, Vanessa Williams tried her hands, Natalie Cole does beautiful jazz set.

So, where are you going musically?
Musically, I flow with the tide. I am not boxed up. I try to experiment. As I said, last year, I was in India doing a collaboration with some of my friends that side. They were doing their independence anniversary and they invited me officially. It was awesome. For me, if I get an invitation to come to Japan to come play with some Japanese musicians, I would do it. Anywhere music takes me, as far as it is good music and people are dedicated, I would do it.

Where do you get inspiration from?
From life, from love, from living. Just looking at what is happening. And, of course, sometimes, it comes from above.

What are you currently listening to now?
I listen to different things. A lot of Nigerian stuff because I one of those who think that we can’t say that they are playing hip hop, so we ignore them. What we are trying to do is to redefine what they are doing for them to see that yes, you can take this music and make it proper from the context jazz. So definitely I am listening to a whole lot of Nigerian sounds, I am listening to my Richard Bonner, I am listening to Salif Keita, I am listening to a whole lot of stuff, because the album is going to be a fusion of African sounds, Nigerian sounds and all of that. So I am just having different influences.

How do you see the new wave Nigerian music of today?
On Sunday we did a gig featuring Brackets and Deejay Azeez of Fokasibe fame. They said to me that they have never played with a live band before. So, that was the opportunity that we tried to create for them, just to say that you can do your hip hop but you can do it in the context of a live band. I mean, American artistes do it all the time. They bring their deejay to work with a live band and they hook it up. And that is what jazz is—fusing sounds, creating new stuff. So, I think that I want to pioneer that. I think I am trying to bridge the gap of jazz lovers and hip hop musicians, to bring them together and say: this is music. I know a lot of hip hop heads who have never listened to jazz. They don’t like it. But when you come to a Kunle Ayo show, you would love jazz, because we make it very appealing. We are hoping that in the next three years people won’t see any difference between hip hop and jazz. You can see great music.

How is your love life? Married?
Yes. Yes. Yes.

What is yes, yes, yes?
I don’t really love to talk about my love life. Because a friend of mine once told me about two, three years ago and said: Why do you artistes that people love, why do they want to tell us about their marital status? We don’t care. We know they are married, we know they have kids, but keep it. We don’t want to hear it. Just do your music. So definitely, I have a life and I am very happy.

How many albums do you have now? And why is your music not available in Nigeria?
I have four albums. The first one is Ayo. The second one is Beyond the Borders which was Kora Award and Channel O Award. And unfortunately we can’t release them in Nigeria. Then the third one, A Taste of Home which has songs like Joromi. We celebrated some of these great artistes that I listened to while growing up in Nigeria. But unfortunately because of the contract that I have, Universal Music didn’t have an affiliation in Nigeria with any company. They couldn’t find the right company to release through. So, unfortunately they couldn’t release my album here in Nigeria.