After four years in the National Assembly and having aspired to be governor of Lagos State, Senator Musiliu Obanikoro is no longer a new face in politics. In this interview with Willy Eya, he speaks on a wide range of issues including the National Convention of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP), crisis in the party in Lagos and challenges in his ambassadorial posting.

What is your reaction to the verdict of the presidential election petition tribunal?
Well, I just must join other Nigerians in commending the judiciary for a job well done .All these things should not amount to nothing. To me, I see it as a process of deepening our democracy. So, all these judgements here and there should not scare anybody.
They are very germane to the survival of our democracy.

The judgements are so important because an average man on the street must have a strong and firm belief in the judiciary. That is the only way we can prevent a breakdown of law and order in the society.
This is because, once an average person loses confidence in the judiciary which is supposed to be the last resort in terms of seeking redress, then the hope for a just and fair society would be gone. That is why I’m happy with the ruling. It has gone our way this time around but that does not mean that each time there is any judicial intervention in the system, we should support the position. The rule of law is a two-way sword but that is the beauty of it, that nobody is above the law. To me the recent judgement by the presidential election petition tribunal is a good one.
We have also learnt that the other party has gone to the Supreme Court which is equally good for the democratic process.

Do you foresee a possibility of the Supreme Court up-turning the verdict of the tribunal?
Well, I doubt it. I’m not a lawyer, but from the pronouncements made by the judge, because I was in court that day, I could not but from my layman’s point of view concur that it was a good judgement that will stand the test of time.

Do you share the sentiment that it was a political judgement?
Let me tell you, anything you do in this country, there must always be another side to it. Indeed, it is not only in this country but anywhere in the world. Don’t forget, when President Bush was elected in 2000, some people said it was the American supreme court that elected him as president of the United States. But the fact remains that a pronouncement has been made by the institution that is supposed to be the last arbiter in that kind of situation and we just have to live with it.

As a major stakeholder in the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP), what in your view should Nigerians expect from the National Convention of the ruling party?
You would see democracy at play. You would see us showcase the party that is ready to grow democracy in this country. You will see us go at one another’s throat in a competitive manner and the winners would emerge and you will see everybody embracing one another again.

How do you reconcile your optimism with the parallel congresses held in some states?
That is part of the responsibilities that will fall on the incoming executives. Don’t forget that part of politics is conflict resolution. It will be a continuum. It will not end because crisis in a political party will never end. But we have to continually work on it and find a way of resolving contending issues and deepen and grow democracy. That is the essence of it. Nobody who is in his right frame of mind will expect a political party where there will not be conflict. There must be a struggle for the soul of the party. Each time you have an outing like this, there are people who claim to be extremely right and who want their say to be the prevailing one.

There are people who are moderate in disposition who would also want their own say to be the prevailing one, ditto, those who are to be led. The issue of struggle, you cannot put an end to it.
As old as American democracy is, as old as the British democracy is, they are still undergoing some struggles. Look at what happened between Brown and Tony Blair before he left the stage. It was getting to a very rancorous stage before they were able to moderate their positions and allow common sense to prevail at the end of the day. I see the same thing happening here and I believe that we will come out stronger.

What is actually the current situation in Lagos PDP?
It is quite unfortunate that our party in Lagos has been so enmeshed in crisis since its inception. But the ABC of it is leadership and I believe that with the right kind of leadership, we should be able to close ranks and forge ahead. As long as you have leadership problems, those issues will not go away. We need a leader who is a real leader of men and resources. We don’t need a dictator who just wants everybody to toe his line whether the issues being canvassed make sense or not. There are people who do not have respect for others.
No matter how stupid a man is, if you listen to him all the time, there will be a time he will make sense. Even a crazy person walking on the streets, if he sees danger looming, he might run the opposite direction but if you see him running and you say, it is a mad man running, you will be caught by that danger coming and you will be consumed.
So, even a madman can make sense sometimes in a minute of sanity. Until we have such a situation in Lagos, I think the problem would not go away.

There was a court injunction stopping the Lagos PDP from having its state congress but it went on and held it. What happened?
Well, I do not believe any sensible and reasonable person should disobey court order. They were served. Don’t forget ,I’m not a member of the party’s executive. If they have been served and I’m made to believe they have been served and I’m made to believe that they even have a lawyer representing them in this matter, am surprised they went ahead with the congress. To me, I do not believe that in a government where the president has said unequivocally that the rule of law will be his watchword, I think everybody should join him in ensuring that whatever we do, the rule of law prevails.

With this division in Lagos PDP, do you think the party will be able to win the state in the next general election?
It is like you are trivialising the issue. The issue goes beyond me. I think the question you should ask your self is where are Dapo Sarumi, Remi Adiuku, Chief Rasheed Williams, Senator Ogunlewe, Alhaji Muritala Ashorobi, Enoch Ajibosho Princess Adenrele Ogunsanya, Sesan Olanrewaju among others. It is a function of bad leadership that has kept people out of the party. Bad leadership is still keeping people out and until somebody sees this thing as a collective thing, the problem will continue. Somebody should not arrogate to himself ownership of the party and see it from the investment point of view.

If you are running a political party, the most important thing is to bring people with diverse views under one canopy and be able to co-exist for the good of everybody. Let me site an example. There was a day we went to Ottah to meet Baba, and a leader in Lagos PDP said those people that came with me to the place were rented crowd. I introduced them as candidates of the party for House of Assembly election. You know what the leader said, but I do not know them. That to me is very unserious. A serious politician must never say he does not know people. Evidently, that explains his thinking. It is myopic because he wants a party that he can control from his living room.

I want a party that will be so big that it will be difficult to identify everybody by name. That is the kind of party that I want and that is the kind of party that can win election in Lagos. But some people believe that anybody who does not toe a particular line should be shown the way out. Do you think that people must see politics from one angle alone? That is unreasonable thinking. That it is only one man that has the monopoly of wisdom. As I speak to you today, they are electing new executives and it is only one man that is dictating all those things. As long as you don’t love devolution of powers and round pegs in round holes, the problem of Lagos PDP will not go away. It is not Obanikoro but a question of somebody standing up, doing the right thing, making the necessary sacrifice and taking the right steps to ensure that there is a smooth sail as far as this party is concerned.
But there is an adage in Yoruba that when there is a problem with the head, it affects the whole body. The problem in Lagos PDP starts with leadership and ends with leadership.

Do you share the view that PDP failed to clinch the governorship seat in Lagos because many members did not show enough commitment?
Let me simply put it this way. We lost because of internal squabbles, period.

In the circumstance, what are the chances of the Lagos PDP in the 2011 governorship race and do you foresee the party members resolving their differences before the election?
Well, I pray so and I’m hopeful that we should be able to resolve it because the forces of evil can only last for a while. But I see those forces of evil being pushed out of the system and a new blood injected into the party and we will then have a party we can proudly call a political party. Today, you can’t call PDP Lagos a political party and that is the truth.

Will you re -contest the Lagos governorship seat in 2011?
I’m not God and I’m not going to sit here besides you and play God. Man proposes while God disposes and I leave everything to God. Do not forget that I’m being sent out as an ambassador. So, that will also affect my political activities within the country. So, I do not know what 2011 has for me but honestly, I leave everything to God. I’m happy with the peace that I have right now. I have peace of mind. I’m happy and at home with it and I’m going to work very hard by the grace of God to ensure there is peace in PDP and also work very hard to ensure that we have good choice of winning Lagos State next time around.
That I can say without any reservation but as per what I will do in terms of election, I don’t have a clue and I’m not even thinking about anything. That is the truth.

Many predicted before the election that you were going to win but it was otherwise. What actually happened?
You see, everything to me comes from God. If it were meant to be, I would have won the election. It was not meant to be and there were other reasons why it did not happen which we all know. There was rigging, the crisis within the party and what have you, But all that would have disappeared if it was meant to be. But because it was not meant to be, it happened the way it did and I have taken it in my stride and have moved on with life.

The ambassadorial posting is a fresh challenge before you. What will the nation benefit from you?
I think the administration spelt out its focus in terms of international politics which is citizen diplomacy. The welfare of Nigerians is the most important thing to the government of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. So, as an ambassador, that will be my primary focus which is to ensure that the interests of Nigerians viz-a-viz global interest is managed in a manner that will add value to Nigeria.

One thing I want to assure you is when we get to our post of duty, we will take stock of what we meet on ground and we will now take off from there. We will ensure that we move the system way above where we met it because the essence of service is to add value and in the true sense of it, it should be business wise, politically and socially. Those are my focus for now. There is no doubt in my mind that as a young man and with my knowledge of international politics, I will do well for Nigeria. So, with all that in place, we should be able with my exposure internationally and locally to get there and do those things that will enhance our social, economic and political life.

Some believe that ambassadorial postings are like sending one on political exile. Don’t you think you will lose out in the power equation by being far away?
Actually, it is a risk and like you have said, it is a challenge also. I have seen people who came from being ambassadors to still excel in politics. Don’t forget that President George Bush came from being an ambassador to China to rule America and nothing says an Obanikoro cannot leave the position of ambassador to still serve at higher levels.
So, I’m not ruling out anything. Some people may think that ambassadorial posting is sending one to political oblivion but it is also a challenge. Once you know that this is a problem, then you try to work hard to still be relevant and stay in touch with your base.