Fred Itua, Abuja

Mr Dauda Birmah hails from Adamawa State, North East. He served as Minister of Education in late Gen. Sani Abacha’s regime. He is also a former presidential candidate and has held various positions since then.

In this interview with Daily Sun, the septuagenarian kicked against plans by certain forces to retain power in the North when the tenure of President Muhammadu Buhari expires in 2023. He also spoke on insurgency and other salient national issues.

The last presidential election is a subject of litigation. Atiku Abubakar, the presidential candidate of the PDP is from your State. Do you think the court process is an exercise in futility?

I think the court process is necessary. When somebody is said to have lost, you should know that the candidate may have spent a lot of money and has convinced a lot of people to support him. If at the end of the election the candidate didn’t contest the outcome, they will say he is a sell out. To make his followers happy, he has a duty to challenge the election irrespective of the process of his victory.

When the process is exhausted, his supporters will see that he has fought a good fight. Democracy is hinged on the Executive, the Legislative and the Judiciary. Judiciary is the umpire that regulates the Executive and the Legislative Arms when there are conflicts. So, Atiku’s challenge is in order. But why making this challenge; don’t make fictitious claims. Such will belittle you.

We have had an uninterrupted democracy in the last 20 years. Looking back, what would you consider as some of the major gains recorded?

There is no alternative to democracy in Nigeria. If you look at Nigeria, we are divided into North and South. If you cast your mind back, as at 1900, there was no Nigeria. This country came into being with the amalgamation of three distinct units- the Southern Protectorate, the Northern Protectorate and the Colony of Lagos. Participants from these entities were brought together to experiment. Then came the independence of 1960.

As at when the South was talking about self government, the North said no. I agree with the North that it wasn’t ready for self government then. Despite the objections, the North had to follow. The contradictions and ethnic divisions were there. That brought about the coup in 1966. We are still victims of what happened in 1966. Today, we are now hostages of that incident. Every country has passed through a baptism of fire. Every work in a national development is a work in progress.

You just made a claim that the North wasn’t ready at independence. Could that have been responsible for the developmental disparity between the two regions- North and South?

Colonial history is such that the Portuguese, the Spanish, the English the French tried to possess territories in Africa based on trade. As trade moved, religion followed. Because they were coming by sea, coastal people were in contact with them. The North was isolated in the desert and Arabs they had contact with didn’t expose them to education or anything like that. The North was left in its glorious isolation. For instance, the first Northerner qualified to be a medical doctor in 1954 whereas, in the South, a medical doctor was produced in 1800. The first Northerner to be a lawyer is still alive. That’s the father of the Governor of Kwara State. The North was exposed to western modernity late. You can see why you have the sharp differences.

Recently, some Northern leaders argued that zoning should be jettisoned in 2023. In the interest of equity and fairness, do you think that argument is valid?

Nigeria as it stands today and with the sharp differences, we should maintain the rotational presidency. I am not in favour of micro zoning either in the South or in the North. If we zone it to the South, Northerners should keep quiet and allow the people to decide for themselves and the same thing for the North. There is a dangerous tendency of people advocating for the principle of entitlement. Entitlement stops at North- South dichotomy.

It means you don’t support micro zoning?

No, I don’t. If you say you’re going to get involved and go for micro zoning, you will be encouraging laziness and some form of entitlement. The rotational arrangements between the two regions should be encouraged. For now, there is this deep suspicion.

Those advancing the argument that power should remain in the North beyond 2023 want North East to produce the next president…

I am from the North East and I am one of those saying that we have not had a president since the time of Tafawa Balewa. This argument should be made within the context of zoning power to the North. When we make this argument, we should shut out the South. The North should talk to itself and the South should talk to itself too. When it’s time to pick another Northerner after the South may have served out its term, we will talk to ourselves. We explain to North West and Central why we deserve to produce the next president.

What if this power shift doesn’t happen? What would likely be the possible outcome?

Politics is not a laboratory experiment. I don’t think that it will make sense for any politician to second-guess what will likely happen. There are so many dynamics. For now, no one can predict. It’s a human situation. Predicting what will happen politically is impossible. It’s better to go to a casino and predict who will win than to predict any political outcome.

Take for instance the North. Today, the region is at war. I don’t know who is waging this war against the North. There are outsiders buying guns and fighting us.

You have already delved into the next phase. Until 1999, the North was a peaceful region. What happened?

There is a war. Let’s not pretend that it doesn’t exist. The North is at war. We have heard of arms dropped for insurgents. There are people who are working from the religious, ethnic, secessionists and ethno-religious angles. They are waging this war against the North and I don’t know why.

What is the situation in the North East? Has Boko Haram been decimated?

See, it’s true. Boko Haram insurgency is not a conventional warfare. You can’t tell where anyone belongs. When the government says it has reduced the fighting power of Boko Haram, it’s true. Substantially, they have been reduced. But the government is now redeploying soldiers from the North East to other parts of the country to fight other crimes. Boko Haram fighters are aware. So, they look for your Achilles heels and strike. There are renegades who still carry out attacks. They now attack stores and steal to survive. Before, we were dealing with Boko Haram. Today, we are dealing with Islamic State of West Africa. This is a dangerous dimension.

Do you think the government has responded well, especially the refusal by the president to change Service Chiefs?

As a person who has served in various levels of government, I think the Service Chiefs are doing well. They are encumbered because there are no resources available to them. They wait for days to get simple supplies. That should not be the case. People are saying we should change the Service Chiefs. But bringing in new people will take time for them to understand the dynamics of war. We will change them at our own peril. It is not safe to do so.

What many people don’t know is that, President Muhammadu Buhari of today is not the same person who was in the Military. Things are different now. We should be patient. It takes time for any government to put things in place. It is not even the government that is not doing right. It’s the people. We focus too much on the Federal Government. What about the states and Local Governments?

But states and Local Governments don’t control any security agency…

It doesn’t matter. They have local security people they can handle. Let them make the Local Governments work first. That’s the first step. Nobody talks about what is being stolen at the local or state levels. We focus on the centre. It is wrong and I think we should redirect our energies.