…says there is no alternative to PDP in 2019
By Ismail Omipidan, who was in Bamaina
About a week ago, former Foreign Affairs minister and immediate past governor of Jigawa state, Alhaji Sule Lamido, met with the 36 states party chairmen of the Peoples Democratic Party, PDP, and the six zonal National Vice chairmen, to hint them of his 2019 presidential aspiration.
By last Sunday, Sunday Sun went on the trail of him. And after two days in his village, in Bamaina, Jigawa State, Lamido in this exclusive interview, the first to be granted any newspaper after his recent release from detention, confirmed what transpired at the said meeting, and went further to declare that there was no alternative to the PDP, come 2019.
He also described the All Progressives Congress, APC, as a “total disaster,” adding that “You know, when a flood disaster occurs, by the time the water recedes, you could see the consequences. You could see the level of destruction, the agony, the pain, the misery; this is what APC has done. In trying to celebrate, you begin to wonder what is there to celebrate, a disaster. Is Nigeria now more united than we were four years ago? Tell me. Before we begin to talk about infrastructure, employment, power, bla, bla, bla, you talk of our chemistry first, because you can only give power if the country is stable and united where there is love and mutual respect for one another.”
Recently you were remanded in prison for allegedly inciting the people against government. What exactly transpired, how was it like spending three days as a former governor of Jigawa state in detention?
I really don’t want to even talk about it because in so doing I will be dignifying the governor and giving him some relevance. So I don’t want to say anything about it. But suffice to say that here is somebody who is occupying an office, but who does not know the importance of the office he is occupying. So rather than growing to meet up and fill the office, he is pulling the office down to his own level and in so doing, he becomes an embarrassment to himself, an embarrassment to the office and indeed embarrassment to the entire state. It is just sad and unfortunate.
For those three days in detention, how was it like?
I have been to prison and detention in my life several times I don’t think that it is one experience that was different from the others. But like I said, I don’t want to talk about it.
Talking about going through this kind of ordeal, we recall that in January this year, your country home, Bamaina was also under siege to prevent some Nigerian youths from accessing your residence. With the latest action, do you in any way see all of these as attempts to intimidate you?
What happened in January was a sad commentary in our country under a democracy. A very sad tale of what we are going through as a country, under a democracy. Those youths who came to see me on January 1, saw me as a father and they were coming to greet me, this is customary. But somehow, I don’t know from which particular source or authority- they sent about seven truckloads of mobile policemen to my village from that Thursday. It is a very tiny village and they were there from Thursday until Sunday, terrorising everybody in the village, blaring siren you know, a show of force. I did not know the magnitude of what they perceived. I called the DPO; he said he won’t come, because he had ‘orders from above’ not to see me.
Ideally, as a former governor, they could approach me and say ‘sir there is an obvious threat to peace which we understand may arise from the youths coming to visit you, so please call it off.’ Of course I would call it off.
But there was nothing like that. Instead, I came down from Sokoto after attending Tambuwwal’s daughter wedding on a Friday and then found that my entire village has been encircled by the police. I went home to sleep. By the next morning, which is a Saturday, I woke up to the news that some youths were coming to visit me. And because of all the barricades they put along the highways, it unwittingly created unnecessary attention, because it is along the highways, some people passing by would say what is happening? So the news went round the country because of the gridlock. But the youths were very adamant and they parked outside, then trekked through the village, and came to my residence and did what they did. I find the whole episode as a total breach of our democracy.
For youths to organise themselves and come to my village is a crime. Bu then the same government will also organised the same youths to celebrate or welcome Buhari from London. At every opportunity they have, they organise the youths as a way of identifying with Buhari or the APC. Yet, the same opportunity is denied my own people and other Nigerians. But whatever they thought was the effect of that threat collapsed on their faces because the youths became more hardened in their support for me, and in their love for me.
In me, the APC should know that they are dealing with a very old phenomenon. I have been through these kinds of things in the past; I went to prison under Babangida, under Abacha. I don’t think there is any particular character in Nigeria, who would try to apply state force to terrorise me or intimidate me. It is not possible. So whoever is behind it simply lack the understanding of how to control issues bordering on political tensions, which may have some political implications. There are better ways of handling issues like that, through engagement and dialogue. But because they are amateurs, they don’t know how to control this kind of situation, so they keep on creating so many problems for the government they claim to be serving and further alienating Nigerians from that government.
Talking about our democracy, in the run-up to the 2015 elections, you did say categorically in some of your interviews that the APC was a group of ‘aggrieved Nigerians’ and that, they would fail Nigerians should they win the election. With what is happening so far now, do you feel vindicated in any way?
I don’t think it is issue of vindication; it is the issue of all of us in Nigeria ignoring the truth. We know the truth, we all know it, but we chose to ignore it because we try to place reasons with emotions and sentiments and in the process we get unnecessarily angry. So naturally we have the consequence with us.
If you look at Nigeria as a country, Nigeria as a history, Nigeria as a culture, there should be something called legacy, there is no way a party like APC that is a unifying pool of anger, a unifying pool of pain and malice and envy will simply form a political party and make any positive impact on Nigerians. There is no party in the APC. I have been saying so, and you could see it now. They cannot do anything because they came in unprepared. The country and governance was not in their thinking. What was in their thinking was simply to remove PDP from power, humiliate PDP, embarrass its members, demonise them, blackmail and intimidate them, that is all. But that is not government. Government should be able to enjoy the respect of all citizens, because a government is for the citizens, it should be there for me and for you and for APC members. So it is not a case of vindication, all of us knew what to expect, even those in the APC are aware, and they knew it.
Again, towards the run up to the 2015 elections, a lot of Nigerians including some of your party members, had thought you were going to run, 2015 came, you did not run. But today we are hearing that Sule Lamido may run in 2019, are you prepared for the race?
Let me first clear something or clarify this issue. In 2015, those who were urging me to run saw in me a potential to lead the country, so they look at Sule as a person, but then they fail to appreciate the political culture in the country and the political chemistry of Third world countries. You may pick a person, but then where do you drop him? And as somebody who is quite aware of the political culture around the world, I knew there was no way a sitting president of a party in government will lose a primary election to any member of his own party. If any member of the party challenges the president and then defeats him, I mean the party defeats him; it is simply passing a vote of no confidence in the person of the president. And by so doing, you make him lose some moral authority to preside over the country.
Nowhere in the world where an incumbent president is challenged from within his own party, it is a misnomer; it is not a tenet of democracy. I mean when you defeat him, you expect him to run the country for the remaining period and then organise an election for his opponent and then handover the party and power to him? Are you serious? It is not in the tradition of what we call party culture. So, people are looking at me solely as an individual with the kind of potential they are asking for, but then they fail to come to terms with the reality of the fact that it was not possible for me to challenge a sitting president, produced by my party. It is not in the tradition of the party culture, pure and simple.
But then some were expecting you to move to the APC. Why did you not move?
From my political background and history, from my political culture, you join a political party based on some beliefs. That was what defined our own political system in the PRP. I mean there are some appeals, some values which are attractive, which will make you convinced and committed based on the beliefs. Now, I did not see that in the APC.
Again, from my political background, there is no way any kind of induced pain in me or any induced crisis of my political party or any failure of the party, will simply make me abandon the party. No matter, our imperfections, I cannot simply leave the party. Leave the party and go to where? Rather than leave, I will remain to help reform it. That to me is the only way to show one as a serious party man. I mean I should go to the APC, the same party maligning my own party, vilifying my own party, demonizing my own party members, a party that sees us as lethal enemies. Are you serious? What should I go and do there? My failing to go to APC is based on my political background and history. I can’t join something I don’t believe in. I just don’t believe in the APC. Those who are there now, find out from them, are they happy?
Ask Nigerians who voted out PDP, are they happy?
Talking about 2019, about a week ago, we got what looked like a confirmation, from the meeting you held with the 36 states chairmen and some zonal chairmen on your aspiration, how prepared are you for the race?
It is not the issue about my preparation first; it is the issue about the whole thing. And I am not in any way trying to beat my own drums; it is a fact that a number of people have been coming to me, institutions, and a number of organisations, all over Nigeria. I have received several phone calls from leaders all over the country, urging me to offer myself to serve. And like I told you earlier, I am coming from a political background, and the last 10 years of my experience in government and governance show that political parties seem to take the back seat, after government has been formed. They described one as being occupied by provincial people; another government was called government of ‘our own son.’ And the present one is called government of cronies, of about four people, and gradually party system is being eroded, and replaced with outright nepotism, where you now put relations and friends in government and when a government becomes appropriated, becomes personalized, the political system loses confidence and so it will not succeed because you need political goodwill and support, through political network for the political party to be able to defend the government and explain even its problems to the people.
So with benefit of hindsight, I decided that if I am going to run, I must restore party tradition and party culture because my political party PDP has produced at least three presidents, over 50 governors, a number of legislators, senate presidents, speakers, Deputy Senate presidents and deputy speakers, speakers of State Assemblies, so that was why I started my consultation and sensitization at that level. So basically, the intention is to restore party tradition and culture. This is so because it will be unfair for you to be in say Benue State or Kwara or Kogi, and you see some youths promoting me, you feel a little slighted, so I called the state party chairmen first, to formally say, ‘look because of these calls, I have been receiving,’ I feel I should inform you first that I intend to run, if they find me worthy of flying the party’s flag, I will thank them and accept it. And in so doing I also told them that other aspirants too may likely come up and may also call them. After this, I am also going to talk to serving PDP governors. I will talk to former governors, my colleagues; it is not fair for them to find out on their own without being formally informed by me.
And informing them is not saying that they must support me or not. It is also not saying that somebody from among them cannot also come out and it is just simply making the process much more tidier, much more civilised so that we remove areas of acrimony and areas of tension. I am also going to meet with former ministers, serving and former legislators, to give them the same information. By the time I am through with all these processes, it means my aspiration will be located within the party, called PDP.
Even among the former ministers too and the legislators, we may see one or two who may likely come out by the time we go for convention. My prayer is that by the time we go for our convention to pick our flag bearer, PDP should give Nigeria the best candidate. By the time the candidate emerges, surely he will win the election, the government who then emerges will be a party government, for all family of the PDP, and then when you make appointment, you don’t give it to your own brother, or your uncle, or your own friends or your townsmen and so the instrument of government will be able to work for the Nigerian dream. In the last few years, Nigeria has been there for us, so let’s for once be there for Nigeria. This is the basis upon which I kicked off the consultation.
You just mentioned now that by the time the process is over and the candidate emerges, surely the party will win. What gives you this level of confidence?
Are you living in Nigeria?
Of course, I do
What is the alternative to PDP in 2019? I am not bragging and I am saying this with all sense of responsibility that destroying PDP now, by 2019, you are destroying Nigeria because it is the only party which has the political capacity and goodwill and followership in every home, in every village, in every local government, in all states in Nigeria. It is a blended political party for the Nigerian family, unlike the APC which is like the water hyacinth, floating.
Talking about destroying the PDP where does that leave you with respect to the leadership crisis in the party?
The crisis is not in the zones, it is not in the states or the local government. It is at the national level, and soon, it will be resolved. No member of the party today in Nigeria is a member because of Makarfi or Sheriff. The owners of the party are there all over Nigeria. So our crisis, whatever it is, by the time we hold a convention, whoever is the chairman of the party cannot control the wish or the will of the Nigerian people in terms of what they want. I believe that what the party is going through today is another way of ensuring that the party becomes stronger because the aspirants will create that awareness that the party is there for them. So I don’t think the crisis mean anything. Of course APC is keen to see PDP’s demise, naturally, and it is up to PDP to say, ‘hey, you can’t do that.’ I have been saying it; there is no way your political enemy will go to the mosque or church and pray for you, pray for your success or your wellbeing. No, they will go there and pray for your demise. Simple!
About two weeks ago a member of the House of Reps from Kaduna, precisely representing Ikara/Kubau federal constituency, Hon. Yusuf Bala, said that if Osinbajo will be running in 2019, he will not cast his vote for him, and I also learnt recently that a fellow northerner is also saying that rather than cast his vote for Sule Lamido, he will cast it for Osinbajo, what does that tell you?
First, it shows how far down we are as a nation, that you know we rely on mortals. Nigeria is a country with its history. We had leaders in the past, we have leaders now, and there will also be leaders in the future. But APC which came into the scene in the last two to three years has created this culture of hate within Nigerians and so the propaganda, especially in the north where you have been made to stand up for the north as a religion, the north is your own, ignoring other Nigerians and other religions. The northerner, who is saying he won’t vote Osinbajo, is saying so because of the emotions in him. There is also a northerner who is saying he would rather vote Osinbajo than vote Sule Lamido. This means even n our culture of hate, we are also restoring the Nigerian balance. The northerner who is saying he won’t vote me is saying so because I was called a Christian, I was called a pastor because the whole thing was very personal to him, because they hate Sule Lamido, and they hate me and my politics. Now the same person who said he hates me who called me a pastor is now saying he will vote for pastor Osinbajo, who is a Christian, so like I said; the hatred is also creating some balance. But then we should learn to ignore the personalities in terms of whether I like Mr. A or Mr. B, because when you do that, you are personalizing it, it has gone beyond politics. And this was what APC was able to perpetuate in Nigerian politics. It is dangerous.
Talking about personality, in spite of what is going within the APC and its government in the last two years some are still saying Buhari will run…
(Cuts in) Let him run. What is my problem with that?
The question I want to ask is if eventually you emerge as PDP flag bearer, do you think you can stand him?
It is not me standing him; it is simply giving Nigerians a choice to choose between Sule and Buhari. That is what you call democracy, the right to choose, so you give them the choices.
We just celebrated our democracy day, it is now 18 years since our return to democratic rule, how would you describe our journey so far?
Our journey from 1999 to 2015 was very tenuous, a very rough journey. The journey from 2015 to date is a total disaster. The APC which came on board could be likened to a flood disaster.
Flood disaster?
Absolutely! You know, when a flood disaster occurs, by the time the water recedes, you could see the consequences. You could see the level of destruction, the agony, the pain, the misery; this is what APC has done. In trying to celebrate, you begin to wonder what is there to celebrate, a disaster. Is Nigeria now more united than we were four years ago? Tell me. Before we begin to talk about infrastructure, employment, power, bla, bla, bla, you talk of our chemistry first, because you can only give power if the country is stable and united where there is love and mutual respect one another.
Now today, look at Nigeria, do we have all those? APC is simply a disaster. So to me, maybe, this year’s democracy day should be a day of reflection, because if we continue with this culture of hate, we will end up destroying the country and we have nothing to bequeath to our children and grandchildren.
We are now in a country where as a citizen, you can’t even air your own opinion; the government would descend heavily on you. You can’t even talk. Today in Nigeria, if you are not APC, you have lost your human rights to express your own opinion. The other day Dangiwa Umar aired his view on the state of the nation, the presidency descended heavily on him, saying he was speaking out of frustration. Assuming it is true the man is frustrated, which government brought about the frustration, is it not APC? You beat a child and say the child should not cry. Haba! Are we what we were five years ago, before this flood disaster, called the APC? What we are dealing with today as a government is Nigeria’s second eleven.
In spite of the disastrous outing of the APC as you claim, they have also said the Boko Haram that your party could not resolve they have also resolve it. What have you to say on that?
The issue of security is beyond politics, the issue of security is a national problem, and as such should go beyond the borders of politics. APC said PDP introduced Boko Haram. They said so. They called PDP Boko Haram. It is a very dangerous pronouncement. And here in the north where the effect of Boko Haram is much, especially in the north-east, the people there saw PDP as government which was there to harm them, to kill them. So the seed of hatred was planted, because the APC said Jonathan hated Muslims that was why I was called a pastor and perceived as being anti-north.
When Yar’Adua came in 2011, he met the Niger Delta crisis. He did not say it was induced because he is a Muslim. He saw it as a social problem to be seriously addressed and he dealt with it. Now, if what the APC said Boko Haram was, is to be taken into context, it simply means whatever progress they are making in solving it was because a Muslim government is in place, not because it is a social problem. But then, all the equipment being used by the army to fight Boko Haram was the same equipment acquired by the PDP government. Truth, the crisis is not one that should be given political colouration. But that is APC for you.
Beyond Boko Haram, they have done nothing beyond creating pain and agony, and dividing Nigeria, north versus south, east versus west, Christian versus Muslim. This is where the PDP is different. PDP is very important to Nigerians because the PDP guy in Enugu sees the PDP guys in Ondo as his own brother. The PDP guy in Plateau, sees the PDP guy in Sokoto as his own brother. The PDP guy in Borno sees the PDP guy in Ebonyi or Bayelsa as his own brother because it is a Nigerian thing, very Organic. It is made in Nigeria. APC is not like that. So, to me, even APC in 2019, needs the PDP because without the PDP, they are finished. If their only programme and philosophy is destruction, is harming people, is hurting people, is causing pain, is demonizing people, is destroying all Nigerian people, by the time they are through destroying PDP, they are going to eat themselves.
Since there will be nobody to destroy again?
Absolutely, so they need PDP to also save them from their self destruction. APC needs PDP more than PDP needs them because we will help save APC from self-destruction.