Colonel Gabriel Ajayi (rtd), one of the military officers who was roped in as part of the 1995 phantom coup is worried about the level of bloodshed in the country. He urges the Federal Government to immediately arrest the deteriorating clashes between the farmers and herdsmen. In this interview with WILLY EYA, he speaks on various issues.
In recent time, Nigeria has literally become a killing field following the clashes between farmers and herdsmen. What are your views on the ugly development?
I do not feel happy with the security situation in the country. This is because they are shedding too much blood in peace time and it is not good for the health of any nation. It appears the government is having so much challenges; the government is supposed to provide security, welfare and the wellbeing for the people. That is the essence of the government. If there is so much bloodshed like this, it means something is faulty somewhere. You cannot shed blood to stop bloodshed. If you use the military to stop the shedding of blood, the military would have to shed blood in the process. So, we have to design a means to ensure that we are able to stop bloodshed without shedding blood. The whole situation is a mystery I cannot understand. I do not know what is actually wrong and why some people are challenging the government. The challenges to the government are so much. Nigerians are too forcefully political and they do not care to see to the health of the nation more than anything else. That is part of it that is very painful to me. I do not know how the government is going to handle the situation. The government must find a solution to the bloodshed going on in the country. And why should a herdsman from Sokoto leave his state and come to Zamfara; why can’t the herdsman in Sokoto be accommodated in his state? Why can’t the herdsman in Kano be accommodated in his state, Kano? Why can’t the herdsman in Kogi be accommodated in Kogi? Why must they always move to another place outside their state? That is the question we must all answer. If the government says they want a solution to it, if they say they want to put a ranch in Ogun State, the Yoruba must be the cattle owners. We must not condone the idea that somebody must leave his state and herd his cattle to another place. Let them restrict the cattle movement to their own state. One of the things that the government should do is to look at how they can restrict the movement of these herders and their cattle. Though there is the so-called freedom of movement, when the freedom of movement would lead to bloodshed, we have to look at it, weigh the options and know which one is right and more important. I know that there is nothing you do that would not have advantages and disadvantages. We have to look at the one with more advantages and less disadvantages. Let them herd their cattle in their states for the time being and let us see what happens and gradually, plans could be made for a permanent solution. The Ministry of Agriculture and natural resources should encourage the establishment of ranches. But to say that you want to solve the problem of the nomadic herdsmen moving from Maiduguri to Akure, that would be a very difficult thing to do. This is because the man herding his cattle for instance from Sokoto to Akure would have to pass through so many states. How do you herd cattle from Sokoto through Zamfara, Kaduna, Niger, Kogi and down to Osun State? It is not an easy thing to do. Again, we are now so populated unlike the early 60s when Nigeria had not grown like this. The population is so much that it is no more possible for cattle to move that whole stretch without trouble of destroying people’s farm and properties. It is too far. Why can’t they stay in Sokoto for instance or Zamfara as the case may be? Why can’t they be in Kano and why can’t those from Kaduna stay in Kaduna? That is what I feel we should be looking at now. How do we restrict them to their states at least for the time being to put an end to the bloodshed. There is no way you can avoid the bloodshed without restricting the movement of the nomadic herdsmen. Of course the farmers would put their crops on the ground for people to eat and the nomadic herdsmen are also rearing cattle for people to eat meat. Both belong to food security and one should not be against the other.
The Federal Government recently mooted the idea of establishing cattle colonies in various parts of the country. Are you saying that it would not stop the crises between the farmers and herdsmen?
If there is the establishment of a colony in Ogun State for instance, it should be owned by a Yoruba man and not somebody from Sokoto State. How can a man in Sokoto own a colony in Osun State? It would be very unfair and too primitive in this age to say you are going to America to establish something and remain there. It does not make sense. Why should somebody come from Niger Republic to Akure to establish a colony in this country? Nigeria is an independent country and we are running a federal system where there is an executive government in each state. I am not against the movement of people to various parts of Nigeria but if you look at it critically, it has become a danger to the people. Yes, the constitution permits the freedom of movement of human beings in Nigeria and not the freedom of animals. The constitution did not talk about freedom of movement for animals but for man. So, all the animals should be restricted to the areas of their owners. In the Nigerian constitution, animals do not have freedom of movement. So, we have to first of all reduce the danger by restricting the nomadic herdsmen to their own states of origin. Let us solve the problem within the states. If there must be a colony in Osun State, the colony must belong to a Yoruba man and not to a nomadic herdsman from Sokoto. Let them have a colony in Sokoto and it must belong to a Sokoto man. Let them have a colony in Zamfara and let it belong to a Zamfara man. Let a colony in Benue belong to a Benue man and so on. There is no quarrel with that but to say you want to establish a colony in one place or the other, it is not possible because the cattle cannot remain in one place and they must move about. So, the colony you are going to acquire, are they not going to farm in that place or is it only meat people are going to eat. Why are we not talking about the interest of the farmers; why are we always talking about only the interest of the nomadic herdsmen? I sympathise sincerely with the government because the government is in a big dilemma. The government is supposed to provide security, welfare and wellbeing for the people. And so this is a challenge to the government almost beyond its capacity. The situation is so delicate for the government.
Do you agree with those who insist that the Federal Government is sympathetic to the cause and interest of the herdsmen as against the farmers?
It is very easy to make that conclusion but how many of the government people know the herdsmen that are all over the place. Some of the people in government, are their family members not being killed and made victims of the crises. It is not fair to say the government is sympathetic to the nomadic herdsmen. It is like the fly that perches on the scrotum; it is very difficult to hit and kill it. So the nomadic herdsmen issue is on the scrotum of the government and they cannot strike it. The farmers’ problem is also on the scrotum of the government. There is no way they can do it; it is a very delicate issue. Do not share blame at all. We should look for how we can solve this problem. One of my suggestions is that first and foremost, let us restrict the nomadic herdsmen to their own states of origin for the time being to work out a system for the business of nomadic herdsmen. I am speaking from past experience. I have been involved in this problem of sedentary versus nomadic Fulani. I have been commanders in operations in the North as a military officer. There have always been fights between the nomadic and sedentary Fulani. The sedentary Fulani are the agriculturalists while the nomadic ones are the pastoralists. The cattle of the pastoralists would go through the farms of the agriculturalists, so it is not a question of whether it is this tribe or not. It is a problem between farmers and herdsmen and the farmers could also be Fulani. That is even what many do not know. I do not like people always talking about Fulani as if they are only herdsmen; they are also farmers. So if you look at it, there are Fulani who are herdsmen and there are others who are farmers whose crops are eaten by the cattle too. So, we must look at the whole thing as a Nigerian problem and how do we solve this problem. We should stop blaming the government or shifting blames. It is a major problem confronting the nation.
But looking at the festering crises, do you think they have political undertone? There are those who believe that the situation is being aggravated by politicians who want to use it to gain some advantage of it ahead of the 2019 general elections.
I will tell you that there is no crisis without a political undertone. Even church affairs also have political undertone. There is no way you can rule out political undertone from anything. As you are building, some people are pulling it down. That is the essence of society. Everybody would not think the same way. While others are trying to raise the thing up, some others may decide to pull the thing down. So, the situation with regards to the farmers/herdsmen crises would have political undertone but the underlining factor is that there is a threat to natural security as a result of what is happening. We need all hands to be on deck to check what is happening and I would advise and beg that we stop the blame game and face the problem squarely for the benefit of everyone of us.
The tension in the land in the views of some people, further justifies the need to restructure the country. With the All Progressive Congress(APC) coming out with a report in that direction, do you think that restructuring should be done before next year’s general elections?
I have always been a proponent of a restructured Nigeria. But what I support is the idea that we go back to what we were on October 1, 1960 or October 1, 1963. The water from the well of Bethlehem of the colonial master that was brought to us by Dr Nnamdi Azikiwe, Chief Obafemi Awolowo and the Sauduana of Sokoto, we should be allowed to drink it peacefully. We should go back to what we were then where we ran a true federal system. The regions should run their own systems themselves. All we need to do is to allow the component parts to develop their latent talents. And for unity in diversity to really work for us, we must restructure. That is the essence of unity in diversity; because we failed to restructure, that is why the Northern leaders support the idea of wasteful oil exploration in the region instead of using that money to invest in Agriculture which is the best thing for their land. In Northern Nigeria, we should be exporters in finished products of Agriculture. But the money is being siphoned by foreign companies who say they are prospecting for oil. If it is Borno State that has that money, it would not be wasting it on prospecting for oil. It will invest it in something that will bring it dividends quickly. So, it is good for us to restructure but some people do not understand the restructuring thing that we are talking about. They feel it will be a punishment for some people. They are very suspicious of the motive of those people calling for restructuring. It is the suspicion that is causing the problem and not the restructuring itself. The suspicion that those calling for restructuring do not mean well for us is going to affect us. I do not believe that the APC government would restructure anything. But the point is that the minimum should be that we go back to the true federalism that we used to have before. Let us go back to what we used to have as at October 1, 1963 and start from there. If there is any part that lacks something, the rest that have must provide for them. I do not believe that they should starve in Sokoto and we will be eating in Osun State. We must be prepared to sacrifice for one another. We are supposed to be the same. It should not be about politics but I do not believe that the government is going to do any restructuring. This is because people do not understand the concept of restructuring. Some see it as a punishment and deprivation for them whereas in the true spirit of the country, if there is any part that is lacking anything as a result of restructuring, the part that has that thing should be prepared to assist the part that has not. We should not just close our eyes and be living in plenty whereas our brothers are suffering. It is so painful to me that when we speak on restructuring, people are opposed to it. They do not want to understand what we are saying. There is no place where God created human beings that He did not place what they require to survive. All we need is visionary leaders who would discover what is there and use it for the benefit of everybody. There is nothing wrong in restructuring but so many people believe that the government is the driver of the economy in Nigeria. The economy should have been private sector- driven and the economy should have been functioning very well. People would get work to do. But when government is the provider of everything including jobs, how can the Federal Government provide jobs. The Federal Government has not established any industry since they came to power, so how can they provide jobs. How can they provide jobs without production? So, if we restructure, we would be productive and Nigeria would no longer be a huge supermarket; it would no longer be a dumping ground for all manner of goods. It is restructuring that would make Nigeria to work and for us to take our position in the comity of nations and be the leader of Africa and the blacks in the world. Restructuring would bring progressive development and good dividends to every part of the country. And we must put a standard minimum that we would not fall below.
Two controversial letters written by two retired generals and former heads of state, Chief Olusegun Obasanjo and Ibrahim Babangida were recently circulated in the media. The two letters had a similar message which directly or indirectly urged President Muhammadu Buhari not to seek re-election in 2019. What are your views on those letters?
You want me to comment on what my generals have said. In the military, the commanders are always right. A superior is always a superior. Who am I to comment on Baba Obasanjo’s letter or that of Gen Babangida. That is too much for me. I want to see it like this; Obasanjo and Babangida are the two most senior people to write such letters to President Buhari. I cannot dare write such a letter to President Buhari. Obasanjo could have written the performance evaluation in front of President Buhari. So, they are right to write to Buhari and it is left for Buhari to look at the content of the letter. It is for him to look at what the generals said and whether it makes sense or not; is there anything to learn from it and how do we amend. So, they are in a good position to write and nobody can question their authority to write. I cannot say they are wrong or right because I am far too junior to them. I have no mouth to speak on what they have written.
Activities toward next year’s general elections are already gathering momentum, what are your concerns with regards to the poll?
I could see indiscipline on the road to 2019. I could see that our people are not humble. They do not really understand the fundamental issues facing the country. The problems facing the country are not about elections. The only problem with the elections is whether they would be free or fair. But the question is what are the people struggling to get positions going to do better than what the people there now are doing. That is what they should tell us. How are they going to move the nation forward; that is what they should be telling us. Elections would remain elections anyway and people would go and cast their votes but the point is what would be the difference. We should look at Nigeria as our country. If we do not do that, we should just be beating about the bush. I am very unhappy the way things are going in Nigeria today because there is total lack of discipline. We are not concerned about the ordinary people. The politicians are well to do and they are surviving very well but the ordinary people are suffering. We are not concerned about the suffering of the ordinary people and we are talking about the elections.