Dr. Hakeem Baba Ahmed, is the spokesperson of Northern Elders Forum; a retired federal permanent secretary and former secretary of INEC. In this interview with ABDULLAHI HASSAN, he warned that Nigerians are getting frustrated due to hunger, the lockdown imposed by governments and the challenges of Covid-19 pandemic spreading across the country, which may all snowball into a public revolt. He also warned that rather than bracing up for a likely mass infection of many Northerners, most of their governors are in hiding to avoid taking responsibility. He urged governments at various levels to do more for the people to avert the danger of such reaction. His words, “The best approach will be to prepare for the worst, and the North is the worst part of the country in terms of preparations, we have endemic poverty. You cannot isolate people over a long period without resources to maintain and keep them isolated, there must be food, and water and other necessary items to keep them better alive. Our people don’t have it, and government is not willing to give out enough to sustain the people. In the North now, there is serious distrust between people and authority. People don’t trust or believe government or authority. For an average Northern poor man, coronavirus is a disease of big people. They see this lockdown as a punishment, government just want to lock them in. Although, it is not so, but is it ideal for a governor to lock in people for several days without giving them enough food to sustain them? So my projection here is that, the North will pay a higher price for our incompetence and our indifference as it affects the poor people. I am not really confortable with the notion that the number of victims is lower in the North because that in itself is not evidence at all. It is here in the North, you see hundreds of people coming into our states in lorries and trucks everyday. We don’t know why they are coming or going to the North from the South. You see, it is only in the North you find some governors doing absolutely nothing on the corona disease, some governors are afraid to go in for simple test. Some have disappeared; we don’t know where they are hiding. When you put all these together, the scenario of the North on this issue is frightening just like the scenario of Nigeria. For the North, I don’t think we have any escape route or source of comfort, we don’t have testing centers, no facilities to cater for people who are infected by the virus.”
How does NEF see Covid-19 pandemic and reactions of various governments at the national and state levels to it?
This pandemic is a global problem, if we have to be fair to leaders at all levels; both global, national and local, we have to admit that nobody was prepared for this. However, in Africa especially in Nigeria, at least, we have one advantage which is manifestation of this virus is not as worst as in other parts of the world. We saw how it started, we saw the damage it has caused, we saw how best prepared nations were devastated by it and we saw their reactions. We had a lot of time to prepare based on our abundant resources in our capacity to counter it. Unfortunately, we did not take that advantage. We stayed for too long in self-denial. We are ill prepared because of bad leadership from federal to states. There were things we could have done on this to reduce its impact, we are slow in responding, we are slow in taking measures that will provide some basic essentials especially testing centers. I heard one minister saying that Nigeria was prepared to combat COVID-19, even when the most advanced countries were being destroyed by it. I also heard some ministers who were saying that we don’t have problems. This is a clear case of fundamental failure of leadership. So we are now dealing with the consequences; these consequences are just beginning to manifest and we hope that the worst will not materialize.
Unfortunately, even at the level of preparation there was and still no evidence to show that leaders are ready and willing to get us out of this crisis.
The federal government is not rallying governors around, we are having measures that cancel each other all the time, we have a very chaotic approach that has to do with containment measures and preventive measures. All these are very serious issues that any good leadership would have dealt with and we are saying government has not solved these problems. States are locking up to citizens, which is right to do. But there is no any support for citizens to stay at home, you have to give them the resources to stay at home, there aren’t that even the basic ones, like food and other essential items. You can’t lock up millions of poor people for days and days without giving them anything substantially enough to take care of their livelihood and you expect them to stay at home. This is the worst-case scenario and an indication of poor leadership, poor system, poor processes and poverty, worst of all is the creation of distrust between people and leaders. If you put all together, Nigeria represents the worst-case scenario, and most perfect setting for coronavirus to fester.
The level of infection in the North has been minimal compared to what is happening in the south, are you worried things could get worse soon up north especially when most states don’t really have any medical infrastructure in place?
Your first comment about level of infection in the north is very deceptive I have to say. At the early stage, we can become complacent if we just look at infection that has just manifested. There are thousands of people who might have been infected in all countries in the world; it will take a while to be diagnosed. It started within small numbers and just blew up. The best approach will be to prepare for the worst, and the North is the worst part of the country in terms of preparations, we have endemic poverty. You cannot isolate people over a long period without resources to maintain and keep them isolated, there must be food, and water and other necessary items to keep them better alive. Our people don’t have it, and government is not willing to give out enough to sustain the people. In the North now, there is serious distrust between people and authority. People don’t trust or believe government or authority. For an average Northern poor man, coronavirus is a disease of big people. They see this lockdown as a punishment, government just want to lock them in. Although, it is not so, but is it ideal for a governor to lock in people for several days without giving them enough food to sustain them? So my projection here is that, the North will pay a higher price for our incompetence and our indifference as it affects the poor people. I am not really confortable with the notion that the number of victims is lower in the North because that in it is not evidence at all. It is here in the North, you see hundreds of people coming into our states in lorries and trucks everyday. We don’t know why they are coming or going to the North from the South. You see, it is only in the North you find some governors doing absolutely nothing on the corona disease, some governors are afraid to go in for simple test. Some have disappeared; we don’t know where they are hiding. When you put all these together, the scenario of the North on this issue is frightening just like the scenario of Nigeria. For the North, I don’t think we have any escape route or source of comfort; we don’t have testing centers, no facilities to cater for people who are infected by the virus. We don’t know what to do with the corpses in case any victim dies. We don’t know how to get resources to deal with the immediate situation especially in Muslims dominated communities, where there is need to educate people on how to deal with dead bodies. Because Muslims have special process of dealing with dead bodies; if some one dies, there should be process from prayer to burial within an hour. With Coronavirus, you don’t have that luxury. The moment someone is tested positive for coronavirus, he or she automatically becomes a property of state. But it seems the state governments are not ready to do that. The worst case is when you have hundreds of victims dying; nobody will be responsible for that. That is a very bad scenario but that is how we are really looking at it.
President Buhari has directed the release of grains and money to poor Nigerians as stimulus. Is that not a good gesture by government?
Yes, it is but I hope what you have seen is real, because from just concluded survey exercise fourteen hours ago in Kaduna, we have met and asked some residents that they should fear to God, and tell us whether they received any assistance or knows anybody who received assistance from government in any form. Ninety percent (90%) of people confessed that they haven’t received anything, and Kaduna, is the first state in Nigeria to impose curfew. If federal government is distributing resources, I will only say it is supposed to be based on three things; first, the process must not be done by government because it is vulnerable to corruption, the federal government should set up a committee to include Nigerians with high integrity to do this job with fear of God because their names are at stake. There should be a similar committee at state and local government levels as well as going down to hamlets. The problem with most Nigerians is that we think everybody is a corrupt person, which is not true actually. If you go to a village and ask them to give you ten honest people, the villagers will give you. These 10 could be trusted to distribute food to people within their domain. But government will not do this, it prefers to distribute food on the basis of party loyalty, allocate resources based on who support them and not. In fact, you will know what is going on. I am not absolutely certain whether it is true or not but from what I read in newspapers, even banks and other organizations have contributed a lot to the fight against coronavirus. They decided to channel the money differently because they don’t trust government, if they do, why should they not give government the money instead of demanding to know what government wants. If you say government is distributing money and food, we need to see it. I hope government is not relying on old system of sending money to banks because the beneficiaries do not represent one per cent (1 %) of Nigerians. We are not dealing with normal situation the way it should be. Unless we address this pandemic appropriately and be prepared to deal with it, nothing will be achieved significantly. But it is good to hear that some governors are also willing to provide assistance to people, I pray it’ll be transparent, a reality and people assigned will fear God and do the right thing.
Northern Elders Forum is a strong organization respected by most Northerners and Nigerians, what are you doing as a group to assist people against the spread of Coronavirus in the North and Nigeria as whole?
Well, since when this problem started, have you heard the voice of any organization telling government what it is supposed to do or how it should handle Coronavirus problem? We are the first to speak about that, we told government; ‘do better than you are doing.’ I think this is a great contribution from Northern Elders Forum. If things are going smoothly, we’ll do more. Our responsibility is to draw the attention of government on matters that concern the welfare of people, the relationship between citizens and leaders as most important element. Where we see some shortfalls in quality of leadership we correct, and we are doing so more often. Where we can advise, we advise, most of us are highly experienced in different fields. We are retired, we contributed to governance while in the service and we are still contributing. We cannot just sit and watch wrong things going on and we keep mute. So there are many ways NEF is contributing in the life of people. We sometimes meet some governors whom we have access to, and we tell them what we consider to be good for our people and they listen to us while the rest are difficult to see and more often they don’t want to hear about problems. They always run away from their people, if they can run away from their people, rest assured they would run away from NEF. In short, most of our leaders don’t want to hear the truth.
Nigerians see Covid -19 as a leveler between the masses and the rich; everyone is taking treatment in the same facilities in Nigeria. What does this tell of the poor medical system we have in place over the years?
It is not only just the medical system, many people will die from this disease saga, and many will survive also. My greatest hope is that those who survive will have a great lesson to learn from this pandemic. The quality of leadership determines what will happen in this era. They don’t prepare for emergency and contingency. They should all be ready; government should be with people at anytime of needs. For example, they should be always available whenever people are in problem, to find solution for people. We don’t have that kind of attitude in Nigeria. I hope after this pandemic, those left behind will rally round from the councilor at the local government level to state up to the president to put our experiences together and design ways forward. No one achieves power unless he has shown record of competence, compassion and consideration of what is important. Honestly, this is what is missing in this country. Today, we have never needed a strong leadership than now. Unfortunately, we are not prepared for it yet. So it is not just in health system or education, it is the whole system that is weak. Nigerians just allowed some people to buy their ways to power by falsifying credentials of integrity and competence while some were voted on sentiment because their own man must be there whether competent or not, but they end up with trash leadership as it’s happening now. Our leaders, a lot of them, are in hiding now, many cannot come out now. It took days to persuade President Buhari to talk to Nigerians on Coronavirus. How many governors spoke to their people to say this is the reason why I have taken this measure. This is what we are doing, and difficulties we are going through. Very few, even those who made promises have not done so, so there is a problem. Yes, we have a weak health system, education and security system. In the North in particular, the worst possible thing is to be a Northerner. You are insecure; you are poor and now you being killed by a disease.
From the look of things, there are different approaches of fighting coronavirus in Nigeria especially between federal and state governments. What is your take on this?
Again, it all bounces back to leadership. The president is supposed to be holding constant meeting with state governors on this problem; you need to have consistent policy. You cannot run a single policy on everybody without looking at peculiarities. There are common grounds that we are dealing with same disease, so the president, should be calling governors together asking them many things, what is happening in their states? What are your challenges? And what do we do to help your people? Then we will adopt common policies that will suit our peculiarities including religious matters. But we have not done so. First, we have not seen Mr. President meeting governors regularly on the problem. In fact, for me, this is most incredible; we have seen President Buhari announcing the suspension of federal executive meeting for Coronavirus but not much action follows. You don’t have to do that, what you need to do is to take up the nation on that, after all FEC is just an advisory body, you can suspend it’s meeting for six months. Announcing suspension of FEC meeting was just to panic people. There was no coordination and organization in the approach processes of the federal government. No visible collaboration between federal and state governments. Each state government is doing what it wants, federal government is there watching. Ministers are busy thinking what to tell Nigerians and how to tell Nigerians, we are in chaotic situation.
The issue of congregation is very important in religious affairs. Again, the government that is focused and committed should rally both Muslims and Christians a long time ago. Tell them that this disease is spread by contact, especially for Muslims where congregation prayers involve daily prayer activity. What is to be done? Ninety nine percent (99%) of the clerics will tell you the solution. Pandemic and epidemic have been mentioned in the Quran, prepare for it and there are necessities that demand some certain steps. Christian clergy will also tell you their own version and how to go about it. Then the government will mobilize the clergymen to go and preach to their people at federal and the state level. The clergy themselves can be encouraged to do these things. Muslims talking to Muslims, Christians talking to Christians, this is what government should have done. But it was either not done completely or ineffectively done by government. You see, my worst fear is citizens revolt in this country. Citizens revolt is a horrible thing, it happens when citizens comply with the order of the government on certain conditions; when government promises to do something for the citizens and it eventually fails to respect or honour it. Thereafter citizens will choose to break government regulations, break shops and valuable properties, looting then starts, attacking the rich people. That will lead to total breakdown of relationship between government and citizens. That is my fear. If government does not raise the level of its credibility by fulfilling its promises by mobilizing resources to support people and let them have better understanding of its policies. Failure to do that will make people not respect what government plans to do for them if there is any. You don’t have enough bullets to finish hundred million people, you don’t have enough soldiers and police to keep people at home. I’m extremely afraid of citizens’ revolt from the way our government operates; we are heading towards that direction. I hope and pray we’ll never see it, but it is important for government to put in mind that its citizens can go as far as that when it’s absolutely necessary for their survival to be on the street revolting without necessary catching coronavirus but hunger. Citizens could do anything possible to avoid dying of hunger. This is the reality and I am not being prophetic but I am projecting what’s likely to happen if things are not corrected.
NEF critics have often described your organization as a one-man riot squad or a General without troops. How do you react to this?
You see, I don’t have to react to this because; government knows what Northern Elders Forum is. They know that NEF is a group of credible people. They know most of us; in fact they have the best understanding of NEF. We campaigned for President Buhari in 2015, they knew that we used to visit Buhari in the Villa and we gave advices. They know every one of us as group of patriotic Nigerians so when they said NEF is one a man squad or called our chairman a General without troops, I laughed. Because they know they are lying and they know that Nigerians know who we are, in short, it does not bother me at all. Professor Ango Abdullahi is our convener; a respected elder statesman leading highly respected personalities in the North. Buhari is a northerner, most people that voted for him are from the North, and they did that because they have the hope that he will improve their lives. The only people who can tell him that you make mistake here, please do better is the Northern Elders Forum (NEF). We will not stop pointing out what is wrong and right. Total silence may mean that what the President is doing is right. Of course, we were part of the process that brought him in 2015 as president. But 2019, we told people that ‘don’t vote for him again because of poor record of performance.’ But many people didn’t listen. It was a democratic process, some people still voted for him. He still has a chance, either as president who realized his mistakes or president who wasted eight years without significant achievement in improving the lives of Nigerians.