Former Minister of Petroleum and Energy, Prof Tam David-West, in this interview, dismissed the submissions of a prominent indigene of Iwo town in Osun State, Chief Abiola Ogundokun, that he rejected ministerial appointment and monetary gifts from the late Head of State, Gen Sani Abacha. He also said it was a blatant lie that Ogundokun took him to conferences abroad. Excepts:
Chief Abiola Ogundokun, in a recent interview said he rejected ministerial appointment and monetary gift from a former Military Head of State, General Sani Abacha. He mentioned your name that he used to take you abroad for conferences and you collected money. How would you respond to the submission?
Under normal circumstances, I will not like to reply Ogundokun in order not to dignify him, but since lies must be corrected, that is why I’m giving this interview. But I will never take issues with Ogundokun because it will dignify him. I’ll give you the background of this man. First, everything he said about Gen Sani Abacha and myself are big fat lies. They never happened.
Can you shed more light on it because he mentioned that some people are still alive that can testify to it?
Fortunately, the person he mentioned, Major Hamza Al-Mustapha is also close to me. I have also called Al-Mustapha to confirm. I can challenge Ogundokun and Mustapha, let’s meet and Mustapha will tell him you are lying. Mustapha is going to read this too and will know that he is lying. Before I finish my story, you will know because I don’t want to reply Ogundokun to dignify him. I mean every word I said. I don’t want to dignify him because Ogundokun is not worth my efforts. This man lied so much against me, I sued him for over N100million libel and this was about 20 years ago. They want to destroy the case. The matter dragged on until one day, we came to Ibadan in court. He was so theatrical. The judge stopped the case.
I’ve not left him but my people pleaded with me that why are you bothering yourself with Ogundokun? So I left him. That is the background of Ogundokun.
First, Ogundokun wanted to use me to connect him with Sani Abacha. Sani Abacha has been close with me since 1975. I was the Commissioner for Education in Rivers State. Ogundokun didn’t know him then. Sani Abacha and I served in General Zamani Lekwot’s cabinet, who was the governor of Rivers State in 1975. Then, Abacha was General Officer
Commanding and so he was a member of the executive council by office. So, from there, we became friends, very close friends and then later on he became head of state.
After the regime of Gen Muhammadu Buhari was overthrown by Gen Ibrahim Babangida, I didn’t want to come back to government, it was General Abacha that pleaded with me to come back to serve under Babangida. I’m sorry I have to mention names, Seriki Sasa can confirm how close I was with Abacha. I’m mentioning names of important people. I’m trying to situate the fact that Ogundokun did not know Abacha. I knew about him in 1975. Ogundokun knew Abacha when Abacha became the head of state.
Over 10 years after, or much more than 10 years. Now importantly, Seriki Sasa, who is also close to Abacha knows very well how close I was with Abacha. So, I am quoting him and citing him as an example to confirm how close I was with Abacha.
I had never heard of the name Ogundokun. All of a sudden some time ago, during Abacha’s time, I got contacted and he (Ogundokun) came to meet me. He introduced himself. I didn’t know anything about Abiola Ogundokun but from my first contact with him, I started to suspect his motive. Later on, somebody told me that he wanted to use me to be close to Abacha because I was very very close to Abacha. And do I regret being close to Abacha? No I don’t. He had done a lot of bad things and I told him too and I published them things he did bad. I have copies of my critical publications on Abacha.
So, Ogundokun came to me in my house here on campus, University of Ibadan, that he was going to Abuja . If you are going to Abuja, what concerns me about it? I didn’t know he came to meet me to connect him with Abacha. Innocently, I said I have a letter for Abacha, the then head of state. He was going to see the head of state and I said fortunately, I have a letter for him which I have not posted, that please when you get there, help me give it to him.
So, Ogundokun went through the letter, in the letter I was telling Sani that these three, four things that you and I discussed, you have not resolved. Do you know what Ogundokun did? After I had controversy with Ogundokun, he published the letter. He opened the letter. That is to show you the kind of person he is. Ogundokun and I had a running battle about 20 years ago for a long time in the paper.
In fact, I had to sue him for libel. Fortunately, in the letter, I was not asking Abacha to give me anything. The letter I was to post which I still have a copy, I said, “Sani, we discussed one, two, three, four things. You have not resolved them. Please don’t forget them.”
When I had disagreement with Ogundokun, he published the letter.
Fortunately, this is the letter. If you had read the letter well, you wouldn’t have published it for that purpose. He was trying to claim that I was asking him to beg Abacha for me. I said clearly you are not well educated, if you had read the letter, there’s nothing about you in the letter. I was only reminding him about what we discussed. He published the letter in the paper.
Then later on, he wrote something about me, very libelous and I don’t joke with it. Your name is better than silver and gold. I can never forgive him. Someone said why do you bother, I said I must sue him to clear my name. So, I sued him. He was dodging the case. They went to serve him, the address he gave was not his address, finally they served him by publication (substituted service). Finally, he was flushed out to meet with the court. A case of many years, finally he came to Ibadan here. He was so theatrical in court when they were asking him questions. The judge had to stop the case.
If Ogundokun told the truth, I’ll be surprised. First, let me say he quoted Major Al Mustapha. I am quoting Al-Mustapha too fortunately. He should confirm what he said. Let the readers know. Nigerians are not foolish, they will know when they read it, they will know which one is the truth when they read it. He quoted Al Mustapha here. He said that Abacha gave him money and he refused to take the money. He said Al Mustapha brought the money and he didn’t collect the money, he said he told Al Mustapha to go and give the money to Yoruba leaders. Abacha gave him money and you didn’t do anything for him. He gave you money under normal circumstances and you said you don’t want to take it. If Abacha gives him one naira, he will take it. Then he said he told Al-Mustapha to give it to Yoruba leaders and they took the money and signed. Is it possible? Let people judge if that story is credible.
Even if you don’t want the money and you told Al Mustapha to go and give it to the Yoruba leaders and you said the leaders took the money and signed. That is not possible.
There’s no way the Yoruba leaders will sign for money they did not know where it came from. Even, if Al-Mustapha said he gave the money to Yoruba leaders, I cannot believe him. It cannot be true. Why didn’t Ogundokun give the money to the Yoruba leaders himself? All I’m saying is what he said in that interview is not true and I’m going to call Al-Mustapha. He will confirm how close I was with Abacha. He will confirm that Abacha didn’t know Ogundokun, that Abacha never offered him any ministerial appointment.
I want to just show you that what he said about Yoruba leaders here and money, I don’t believe it. It cannot be true because if you read this story, you will know it cannot be true. Abacha gave him money, the money I’m talking about is not to be publicised. Abacha is not with us anymore, why would you do that to Abacha? That Abacha gave him money, of what use was he to Abacha? When you said Abacha gave you money, who is supporting you about it? I don’t want to take it and you gave it to Yoruba leaders and they signed for the money and took it, it’s not possible. Even if they are going to take money from him, why should they give him receipt? Receipt for what? To show you that’s not credible.
Abiola Ogundokun said he took me around the world. I’ve never traveled anywhere with Ogundokun before. Never. In Nigeria I’ve not. I challenge Ogundokun to mention the names of the countries we went. My passport is here, we can easily verify. We can easily check. First, he’s a liar. I didn’t travel to anywhere in the world with him. He said we used to go all over the world.
But in the interview, Chief Ogundokun said: ‘When I took some prominent Nigerians to a conference across the world, they all collected money. Some of them were Professor Tam David-West and Tony Anenih among others.’ Maybe, he’s sure of what happened.
That is completely false. Ogundokun never went to any place with me.
I’ve never traveled with him before. Now if his story is true, it is easy to verify. If we traveled all over the country, let him mention the countries we went to. We can easily verify it. My passport is there, let him bring his passport to confirm it. It can easily be confirmed. Ogundokun never traveled anywhere with me or Anenih. Anenih is a colossus.
If you compare Anenih and Ogundokun in Nigerian politics, Anenih is a colossus, Ogundokun is an ant. Aninih was the national chairman of the defuct Social Democratic Party(SDP). He was even a top police officer before that time. If you take Ogundokun and Anenih, I only mention Anenih as a party.
Let me come to my own. But to show you he is a liar, how can Abiola Ogundokun give money to Anenih? He is saying that Anenih was part of the entourage that traveled with him, it is not possible. If you compare Abiola Ogundokun and Anenih, he cannot even qualify to carry Anenih’s briefcase to the plane.
But he gave the impression that he was the chairman that was going round the world with Anenih and Anenih was a member of delegation and he gave money to him, it’s not true. Anenih was a colossus in Nigeria’s politics. Chairman of SDP didn’t go to anywhere with Anenih.
I didn’t go to any place with him. I didn’t travel anywhere with Ogundokun, never took any money from him. He didn’t have any money to give me. Okay the money that they gave to us, who gave it to him?
You spend the money of Abacha again, he said Abacha used to give him money, Abacha will not give me money through Ogundokun. He will give it to me because I have been his friend since and we’ve been very close. So, it’s not true.
Ogundokun did not travel anywhere with Anenih or with anybody. To prove that, he said he traveled with prominent Nigerians all over the world, who were members of the entourage and he was the chairman. If it’s true that we traveled, there’s no way Abacha will make Ogundokun chairman of such a trip if I was a member. There’s no way Abacha will make me a member of entourage, not leader. So, it’s not true. We didn’t go anywhere. And I’ve said to verify it is very simple, my passport is here, let him bring his passport and show us the country we went.
Now, during Abacha’s time, I made two trips abroad. One was chairmanned by the Foreign Affairs Minister, Tomi Ikimi. The other one was chairmanned by Chief Tony Anenih. And the truth is all like this.
The one chairmanned by Anenih was in London. Abacha had very bad press with the West so there was need to send people to talk to people. So, we went to London. Anenih was the chairman, I was with the entourage.
Modu Sheriff, former governor of Borno State was a member. We went to London. The Nigerian organisation there invited us in a big hotel conference room. It was public, we were telling them the truth about Nigeria. I later did an interview with BBC.
Ogundokun was not there. He never went anywhere with me or with anybody. That’s the first trip I made abroad. Fortunately, there are people that are still alive, Anenih is alive, Modu Sheriff, former governor of Borno state is alive. He was a member of that delegation too. Ogundokun was not there. We had the first meeting in Anenih’s house in Knightsbridge in London. Ogundokun was nowhere near there.
Then, the second was chairmanned by minister of foreign affair, Tomi Ikimi. We were a 12-member committee. We were to go to London or go to Commonwealth countries to lobby them, to support us so that Nigeria will come back to the Commonwealth. We were asked to go round to talk to them to support us to come back to the Commonwealth. Ogundokun was never near there. He is still alive and Paul Onugu, he’s still alive.
In that commonwealth trip, Chief Emeka Anyaoku was then the Secretary-General to the Commonwealth. He invited us for dinner. We didnt go. Ogundokun was nowhere near there and he has never gone to any trip because of Abacha. I made two trips. First, chairmanned by Anenih, second one by Tomi Ikimi. And nobody gave us money. He said I took money from him, how much did he give me? He’s a liar. I’ve never been paid any money for doing work for Nigeria. The 1979 constitution was drafted by 50 of us. Chief Awolowo declined to serve us, so that was 49. So, 49 plus Chief Rotimi Williams then, nobody gave us any money. We worked for the constitution for nearly one year and none of us was paid sitting allowance.
The CDC is working on the fundamental document of Nigeria and we were sitting everyday for about one year, how come the same government will give us money to travel abroad? 1979 constitution, we sat everyday for nearly one year, Akinjide is alive, none of us got one kobo as allowance. Even the house they got for us, all of us were housed at the federal guest house, Victoria Island to cut cost, so I’ve never taken any money. Then vision 2010 of Abacha, nobody gave us one naira.
So, I’ve never. That’s why I said during the time of former President Goodluck Jonathan, when he wanted to do the 2014 confab, he paid N12million to each delegate. It was very wrong. I said why should you work for your country and be paid? It’s a different thing if you are a commissioner. If you are asked to be a committee member to do a working paper for your country, why should they pay you? I’ve never taken any kobo for serving my country except when I was commission or minister. But for doing service, 1979 constitution, vision 2010, the trip abroad to lobby for Commonwealth, long and short is that all Ogundokun said there are totally false, completely false.
Abacha didn’t offer Ogundokun any ministerial appointment. If he did, I would have known. And Seriki Sasa can confirm that Abacha was to bring me back as minister. Seriki Sasa had to go to Abuja with me and he said he will go by road, I said I have flight. He was very close to Abacha. Abacha never offered Ogundokun any ministerial appointment.
Maybe Ogundokun was close to Abacha to a certain extent, but what of if it was not to your knowledge. If actually Abacha offered him ministerial appointment and money but it was not to your knowledge?
It is not possible. I know the level at which I relate with Abacha.
That’s why I’m quoting the same Al Mustapha. He knows who is telling the truth between Ogundokun and myself. There’s no way Abacha would have offered him ministerial appointment. Abacha and I were close, but he also accommodated my criticisms. A lot of things that Abacha and I discussed, Mustapha knew about it. Mustapha was so close to me, I’m quoting him now. Fantastic man. Every man has his fault, but do you know this man would go round every night to check whether the securities are there. I phoned him one night I couldn’t get through, he said professor, I’m going round to make sure the people I put there are there. Mustapha knew how close I was with Abacha. So if Abacha was to give ministerial appointment to Ogundokun, I will know. I know of other people. I know of other decisions that he made which Mustapha knew I knew.
What would you say were the motives of Chief Ogundokun for saying those things?
He still wants to be relevant. He had just got a running battle with Oluwo of Iwo. I was saying that I don’t know why the Oba is exchanging words with him. I will not dignify Ogundokun by replying him. After that controversy with the Oba, what Ogundokun wants to do is to become relevant. But as long as I am alive by the grace of God, anytime Ogundokun wants to manipulate the system, I will expose him.
But Abacha and myself related at a very confidential level, which
Major Mustapha knew. So, what he said is not true Abacha never offered him any appointment. If Abacha offered him the position of a receptionist, he would take it.
You said you related at a very confidential level with Abacha, but some people have alleged that Abacha perpetrated some evils during his era, like the killings of Kudirat Abiola, and so on. He must also put you in confidence on the alleged killings?
There are different levels of confidentiality. There are so many things about the military that I did not know. All I am talking about is straightforward governance. The Kudirat death, I feel it, because Chief MKO Abiola was very close to me. The day Abiola invited me to his house, when I arrived, it was Kudirat that took me from the gate to where we should meet. It was MKO Abiola that introduced Bola Tinubu to me.
I have read in the paper how Kudirat died, and all the things Abacha did that I did not accept. For instance, he wanted to be made a life president, I wrote against it. I was close to him, but I did not like his force. I told him and also wrote against it. I told him things that he should not do because people were deceiving them. I love Abacha, but I don’t love his force.
I used to tell him to his face that I love him, but I don’t love his force. So, we were close when it comes to governance, but I don’t expect him to share military or security confidence with me.
How would you react to the allegation that the abduction of the 110 Dapchi schoolgirls in Yobe State was stage-manged by the current administration?
I am very proud to be a Nigerian. But when I read some of these things, I feel so sad. I feel so low. I also read it, and it was stupid. How should Buhari’s government stage-manage the abduction of over 100 girls from a school, and will still stage-manage their release? It is not possible.