Chidi Obineche
Prof Anya Okoh Anya is a chartered biologist and former chairman, Nigerian Economic Summit Group (NESG), who is distinguished for his work in parasitology. He was a 1992 recipient of the Nigeria National Order of Merit. He speaks on the Nigerian condition, 2019 elections, 2023 elections, the judiciary, ethnic agitations, insecurity, Ruga settlement programme, President Muhammadu Buhari, among other issues. Excerpts
You were a member of the Presidential Advisory Council in the lead-up to the 2014 National Conference and also a delegate at the conference. On reflection, are there things you would have done differently if you were to do it all over again?
There is nothing I see that I would like to do differently now. I thank God that not only did we have a successful conference; it broke all records in terms of national conferences in Nigeria. And if you ask me, I don’t think we have had the end of that conference. All the problems we are facing today, there is none that was not touched. It is already a framework for new Nigeria, if we implemented them. You see, two things happened there. First of all, the representation was the most diverse and the most expansive of any representation that is bringing Nigerians together. In the Okouroumu Committee where I served, we decided that if we went through elections, it would be a sham as we have seen with the kind of results we have in our elections. If we also said, okay, let’s select people, it will again be faulted because your judgment and my judgment will not be the same and it will become difficult to agree on what the criteria for selection will be. So, we decided to have a halfway house, which was not just election in that sense, but it was election. It was not selection. Why? Because all the governments of Nigeria were represented, including the Federal Government. All the political parties were represented. The major professional bodies like the NBA (Nigeria Bar Association), Academy of Science, the Academy of letters, were all represented. Then, you went to the nationalities groupings; Ohanaeze, Afenifere, Arewa, Niger Delta group, Middle Belt Forum; they were all represented. Ask them, in all those people, there representations were not chosen by government. Each of those bodies selected who they wanted to represent them. If they wanted to go through elections to decide who represented them, it was their business. If they wanted to appoint their presidents and secretaries to represent them, it was okay. It was largely broad based in terms of representation and it was reflected in the depth of the deliberations. Many of the things that were discussed were things that people had always skirted over the surface. Fundamental issues were addressed. So to that extent, it was a good thing and that went a long way in making it highly credible. The pity of it all was that the man who set it up did not have the courage to start implementing it.
If God’s hand was in it, how come that Goodluck Jonathan who set it up could not implement it. Was it that he was intimidated or he just simply lacked the enablement to do so?
Well, thank God he is still alive. Sooner or later, he may have to answer that question. Anything I say, will be speculative. But don’t forget that at that time, people were even suspicious that he set up the committee and went ahead to call the conference. This is because what I may call his traducers from the North were railing against him. There was a strong lobby from the North that they did not want him to contest the election. Politically, he was then in a situation where everything he did was suspect. He had enough problems already that made him hesitate on many things, including routine things that normally he would have done as president of Nigeria. At that particular period in time, I think he wasn’t really clear in his mind what his priorities were. But you see, it was clear that he did not have advisers, who understood and appreciated the dynamics of the conference. If he had been properly advised and he appreciated the dynamics of this conference, this document, with the synthesis of the constitution in its profundity would have passed as a provisional document that would have passed as the constitution.
What do you see as your dream Nigeria?
If you have been with me, I have done more talking than is usual with me in the last two months. On the 27th of May, I gave a public lecture in Port Harcourt as part of the inauguration ceremonies of Governor Wike’s second tenure. I called it “Reimagining Nigeria”. I will send that to you to look at. There is no problem of Nigeria that I have not touched, because we have only three major problems that we have to deal with. This is a plural, diverse society; multi-cultural; multi-lingual; multi- religious. You have to create a framework where diversity is reconciled. And you reconcile diversities by allowing everybody to work together. You start from the areas they disagree and as you work on those ones you build confidence in each other, co-operation will come and from there, if you have a visionary government, you can then be a bit more assertive or shall we say it will take charge and do those things that people would not have been thought possible because, people have developed trust and confidence in it. So, it will be an issue of integration of the nationalities, when we talk about the issue of unity, you can’t build unity on words. You build it on action, which is actually part of Buhari’s problem now. Because of what Buhari has said and done in the past, there is a deficit of trust. Even when he means well, people don’t believe he means well. He has to find a way of regaining the confidence of the people. It doesn’t exist right now. That is the first problem. The second problem, of course, is the economy. You see, there is no point pretending; you cannot have the poverty level where it is in Nigeria today, and you think you have a stable society, a happy society, equitable and just social order. No. You must address the politics. In that lecture I also pointed out, you know that there is what is called the Guinea’s co-efficient in economics which measures the difference between the richest people and the poorest people. That gap in any decent society must be as narrow as possible. One it expands, as it has been expanding in Nigeria in the last 40years, and the worst expansion is here, where we are. We have now, Nigerians, who are billionaires in dollar terms when you do have Nigerians who do not go two dollars a day. You can see the difference. In other words 60 per cent of Nigerians cannot get up to $1000 in a year. In the meantime there are Nigerians who are swimming in dollars and much of the snags with it is that the money has not been made as a result of production in the economy. You’re a Nigerian like me, so you know how these people emerged. If you get into office, corner as much as you can and you become a rich man. That is the second thing. The third problem is that of the value system. You see, when you have ruling elite, you must have a common vision, which says these are the things that can be done, and these are the things that we will not tolerate. And that value system permeates all segments of the society from the top down to the bottom. This is why in Britain, they have a saying “Noblese Oblige.” It is French, but it means nobility obliges or to put it differently it means to whom much is given, much is expected. So, the leadership holds itself to a high level of accountability, holds itself to a high level of integrity; hold itself to a high level of ethics than the average ones. So, many people look up to them. The young ones look up to them and are modeling themselves after them. It is not a pan-Nigerian outlook with a common value and a common dream and none exists right now.
Given all this multifarious problems you outlined, if you were to meet Buhari today, what will you tell him?
What I told him in August 2015 when I gave the Eni Njoku lecture. All the three problems I mentioned, I mentioned them in the lecture. By that time he had made his first appointments. The first 32 people he appointed, only two were not northerners. I told him in that lecture that you can’t go that way in a plural society and expect to succeed. The rest is history.
Is he not succeeding?
Let me ask you a question. I am sure you are aware of the report of the World Bank, the report of the IMF and other international financial regulatory bodies. Is there any that is full of praise for Nigeria?
When you won the Nigerian National Order of Merit in 1992, Nigeria was at a certain level at that time. Between then and now, by your assessment, what has changed?
Things have gotten worse on all parameters. In economics, the poverty level has increased. As you know, violence has increased. And that is not surprising because if you had the military ruling as long as they did you don’t expect much calm. They are the agents of violence. The military essentially are trained to manage violence. When the military rules a country, it changes the psyche of the people and violence becomes an inescapable way of dealing with problems. When that combines with poverty as it has, then you have the bandits, the armed robbers, the insurrectionists, the kidnappers as we have now. But they could still have been manageable if the economy was doing well.
Corruption, poverty, ethnicity, political instability, inability to organize a decent election, destructive ethnic and religious conflicts, massive youth unemployment, violent crimes such as kidnappings for ransom, banditry, bomb blasts, terrorism, are perceived as some of the most serious problems confronting Nigeria. Are you satisfied with the attitude and response of government towards taming them?
Let me ask you a question. When you list all that you have listed and each is a truthful reflection of the situation in Nigeria now, aren’t you frightened that in one country, these litanies of problems are there and those who are leaders are not losing sleep. They are behaving as if things are normal. But things cannot be normal with what you have just listed and there is not one that people do not experience on a daily basis in all parts of Nigeria. Before, it used to be in sections of Nigeria. Now, it is in all parts. You can’t travel on the Abuja-Kaduna road. In fact, surprisingly, if you really look at the level of violence and insecurity, perhaps the Southeast is probably the safest. Until the cattle herders showed up, it was the most stable. Even though we don’t believe so ourselves.
Some years ago Nigeria was gripped with the frenzy of self- determination spearheaded by IPOB, the Igbo outlawed separatist group. Some leaders, notably Igbo and Southeast governors described their leader Nnamdi Kanu as a young man who went astray. That probably encouraged the government to relentlessly launch an onslaught against the group, banned it and consequently muffled the voice of IPOB. As an Igbo leader, what role did you play in bringing about any seeming understanding on both parties?
What you have asked is a limited framework. The Biafran thing was a historical moment and a historical incident. We have not as a people, and when I talk as a people, I am talking not talking about Igbo. I am talking about Nigeria, we have not really interrogated it to know why did it happen; what were the mistakes; what were the lessons to be learnt from it? One of the consequences of where we are is cumulative injustice. Injustice is not only what you do, but what people think you’re doing. So, it is also a question of perception. Since the end of the war, first, the events that led to the war itself, the Igbo see themselves as victims. Why do they think so? In 1964, Eastern Nigeria was the fastest growing industrializing economy in the world. Three years down the line, there was a war and the theatre was the East. You ask yourself the question if truly Eastern Nigeria was the fastest growing economy, it means it was benefitting from the relationship in Nigeria. It had learnt some lessons, which it was applying. It is not natural for people who are benefitting from a system to be the people who will go to war with the system. The question really is why did the Igbo go to war at a time they seem to have been the people most in charge? Igbo have not asked themselves that question. Nigerians have not answered that question. Until we answer that question to the satisfaction of our youth in particular, it is going to be difficult to have a common vision of Nigeria. People have said that it was the pogrom that was the reason the Igbo had to go to war. You can’t kill thousands and bring their bodies back home and still expect people to be rational in their thinking. But that is where leadership comes in. If you had a leadership that could transcend the moment and still look beyond what is happening to what could happen in the future, maybe we would have been able to hang it. But leadership on the Nigerian side and leadership on the Biafran side did not rise to the occasion. Now, after the war which ended in 1970, and the years up to this time, say 40, almost 50 years now, there has been no indication of any willingness to interrogate the issues that led to what happened and get to the point where a truth and reconciliation committee will be set up to have a national, dispassionate examination of the hostilities in which people will say “I am sorry that this happened.” Now, we are working together. It is because that has not happened, there is no lesson for the youths to learn and they live in the society where it seems to them there is a law and programme designed to discriminate against them. And because we no longer teach history in Nigeria, they do not know the historical basis of it. Naturally, no rational human being with energy, with ideas will decide that he will accept a situation that makes him a second class citizen. Whether it is true or whether it is a wrong perception doesn’t matter. The important thing is that perception is reality. Because we have not done that, I can say that Nnamdi Kalu and the people pursuing Biafra are not getting it right. I will even say that this present Nigeria as it is, if we did our homework well, we can flourish in this country in spite of these issues. We have the capacity for it in spite of the problems. Let me even say that what stops you from being a country in a country; an enclave of prosperity; in a sea of whatever? This is especially in the 21st Century when progress is a matter of intellect; what your brain can do and what your hands can do. Igbo are known to be intelligent, are known to be industrious, but unfortunately we are mostly tactical rather than strategic. If we have strategic leadership we will continue to thrive. Even if you put Biafra together, you’re constraining the Igbo spirit. Go from Congo right through to Senegal, Igbo are thriving there. The thing is now to link that up to a system that will make the homeland to prosper. But not only as Igbo land, but also as Nigeria. Many years ago, I put forward the thesis that the key to Nigeria’s development was to create a regional centre of development around Port Harcourt axis; 50 kilometers to Port Harcourt and link it to other parts of the country. If that had been done, you will have a more equitable society economically. Indeed, the nonsense we are having in Apapa would not have happened. This is because Apapa is a failure of leadership in an attempt to exclude a part of the country. There are five able ports in the East of the country and we concentrate everything in Apapa to the point where all the roads collapsed and there is no space for anything as trucks took over everywhere. What of Warri, Calabar, Port Harcourt, Sapele, and one other little ports somewhere there?
But then, former President Jonathan hails from there, but he did not reverse the policy?
You’re asking me to go into… You see, you must understand the environment that shapes people. It is that environment that plants vision and attitudes. I think that Jonathan did better than people are giving him credit for.
Really?
Yes. If you know where he is coming from, you will recognize that he did a lot, given the circumstances that he had to operate in. He, himself told you that he went to primary school in a place in Otuoke. He went down to another village and had his secondary school. He crossed the Lagoon and came to Port Harcourt and had his university education. He is the most limited in experience of all past leaders of Nigeria. What that means is that his vision of Nigeria is limited to a 50 kilometer radius. When you put it that way, you will be impressed that he did what he did to the best of his capacity. The luggage he carried was not fair. If you are to blame anyone, you blame those who did not prepare him for leadership before entrusting him with it. He learnt on the job. And the society must take responsibility. Leadership is not accidental. You prepare people for leadership. Right here in Nigeria, we prepare nobody, which is why it looks like it is a sweepstakes. Leadership is a very serious business and you train people for it. It is what the Chinese recognize and spend time for their generations.
You were associated with what is called YIEGBA which translates to a cry of anguish and shout of victory, it’s perhaps moribund. What happened to it? Is it that Nigeria is now working?
You know that a group of elders two years ago, or was it a year ago started seeing what other Nigerians were not seeing. They started seeing that we were coming to where we are now. And we had to start looking at how do we avoid it? That was how that movement started. It is not moribund. It is still alive. The prime movers are Christopher Kolade and I. Kolade sent a message yesterday (Sunday, July 7 ) that he will get in touch with me today so that we can discuss where we are going. In that movement we succeeded in attracting people like Akin Makonjuola, Ahmed Joda, Philip Asiodu and even Folake Solanke. They are all members of this group. You will notice that most of those people are statesmen that have done good things in Nigeria and where they came from, and the huge experiences they brandish can help in the remolding of the country. Nigeria’s problems have been more complicated in the last two years than it has been in the last 50 years. It has something that experience can add to and we have to get back to the foundation.
What are your basic impressions on the suspended Ruga settlements for Fulani herders and other allied herdsmen movements and activities in Nigeria?
On the face of it, you have asked a difficult question. We have to go back to the fundamentals to understand what you are saying. There is one thing that has exasperated me about this government; that makes it difficult to give them advice. Anybody who lived in Nigeria over the last 50 years would have told you that unless you have a pre-conceived plan and therefore you are pushing; no matter what. Unless that anybody will tell you that it contains seeds of contradictions that will touch raw nerves. Yet, the problems that it sets out to solve is solvable, but not by the route they are taking, part of the problem really is it is difficult to understand why people will take such decisions in a plural society like Nigeria without preparation of the minds of people; without showing exemplary conduct that builds trust. In the 21st Century people see Nigeria and see it in terms of what is happening in other places. Nigeria is not only a diverse society; Nigeria is not only a society that livestock is an important part of the economy; but other people have managed it. Argentina is not only a livestock economy, are they building cattle colonies all over Argentina? What people do not realize is that education is the key to everything. And when you have a leadership that does not place priority on education, not only the understanding and experience of the people will be limited, even the knowledge base on which they plan the economy will be limited. That is exactly what we are seeing. If it is recognized as a national problem, we would have solved it. But it was seen as a sectional problem and you want to solve the problem of your people. If you are the president of Nigeria,’ your people’ if you’re president of Nigeria means and includes me. I am not Hausa/Fulani, I’m not northern, I am Nigerian. The president of Nigeria has responsibility over me.
You were quoted somewhere that there are nonentities in Buhari’s government. I would like you to expatiate more on that?
I don’t use words like that. The reason is simple. I won’t use a disrespectful word against Buhari, even as I have some misgivings about his style of leadership.
Several geo-ethnic groups including the Igbo, Yoruba, and the North are positioning for the 2023 presidential race already. What are your thoughts on it?
Today that we are speaking is July 8. The present government came on board on May 29. It is just a month. And you’re talking about 2023? You have not talked about making sure that we have a government that will solve the problems that we have. Can’t you see that there is something wrong in that kind of discussion? Of course, it comes from a wrong perception of what power is all about. The people that are talking about power in Nigeria think that it is just that you go there and you collect it for yourself, your family and your friends. But governance is a serious business.
But how do you look at the quest for president of Igbo extraction in 2023?
I have addressed that issue, not once, not twice. You remember that there was a time the late Ojo Maduekwe (God bless his soul) said that it was idiotic. Maybe the choice of words was what infuriated people. The truth of the matter is that, that should not be the priority for now. There are more serious problems. I have given this example and I will do it again. In Jonathan’s government, the perception was that the Igbo’s were in charge. Why? Because Anyim was secretary to the government, Ngozi Okonjo- Iweala was coordinating minister, which was just a euphemism for prime minister. So, in a way, that was the left hand and right hand of Jonathan, if you know. What did the Igbo get out of it? There is nothing. It is a misconception of the nature of power or how power can be useful that leads to that kind of discussion. If we are concerned with development the first primary duty of the government is Chapter 2 of the constitution – the directive principles – which tells us that the duty of government is the security of the people and the protection of lives and property. Which government has done that? That should be the concentration, but going back to what I said earlier, if Igbo were clamouring for certain developments to be done in the East, that would be different and refreshing. And let me remind you, development is actually a private sector-driven endeavour. The government is only to create the environment in which individuals will operate in. It is your productivity as an individual, using your human competence to think and work that produces a productive base for the economy which sums up in a productive and prosperous society. You should be creating the conditions that allow the people to do what they want to do, to follow their dreams and for the young ones to aim for the sky and go for it. In which case, does Bill Gates want to be president of America? The chances are that he may even look at some of them with contempt. It is not a priority, cannot be a priority and the people who are clamouring for it should have their heads examined.
Are you in all, saying that a president of Igbo extraction in 2023 is not feasible?
Igbo cannot have a president by themselves. It is other Nigerians who will make a president who happens to be Igbo. Do you get the difference? If all Igbo votes were accumulated and given to one candidate will that make him president? It will not. It is when as it happened with Abiola, the Hausa/ Fulani are comfortable with the man; the Yoruba are comfortable with the man; the Igbo and other ethnic groups are comfortable with the man that it will happen. If you want a president, these are the characteristics needed to actualize it; a Nigerian president that will be acceptable to all parts.
How about the undying posturing by the North that they are born to rule and that they will continue to rule beyond 2023?
I have very responsible friends and leaders from the North that I respect. They are patriotic, intelligent, committed to Nigeria, including some who are Fulani. Many of them if you speak to them today are distressed at the waywardness of the people behind this because they see the threats that it imposes on the nation. So, serious and responsible people don’t talk along that line. And we, ourselves must learn to contain the way our people react to these irresponsible talks. Building Nigeria is more important.
A former president of Nigeria, Chief Olusagun Obasnjo recently disclosed that Nigeria was under the threat of a Fulanisation/ Islamisation programme. Many did not take it seriously until the intensity of insecurity increased and the new Ruga settlement programme of herders by government. Do you think it is truly real and will succeed?
Perception at times can substitute reality. This kind of talk has not happened before in Nigeria, even when other northerners had been heads of government. This kind of talk is only possible under a Buhari. It is not only what Buhari is doing now, but what he did and said going back to 1983/84. You may not remember when he took Jonathan to task saying fighting Boko Haram was fighting the North. You will not remember when he said that Sharia was acceptable and that he will work for Sharia to take root all over Nigeria. He has not disavowed those sayings. But at the same time, he is the president of Nigeria. He swore an oath to do those things the constitution says he should do. If you then have him, as it were, not remembering what he said in the past and people remember them, and they start judging him against the background of what he is doing now, will you blame the people for reaching that conclusion?
Where do you want Nigeria to be before you exit the world?
At 82, I have seen the good part of Nigeria, the one that I am seeing now, I don’t recognize, I don’t understand. But that is also what challenges me. As I told my children, I did not consult you before I brought you into this country. Now, you have complicated the issue by bringing in your own children. I now have children and grandchildren. My commitment is that they will see a better country and enjoy a better country in their lifetime. If that is not possible, they should at least see that grand pa fought till the very end.