Says Yoruba want Oduduwa Republic now
Chief Ayo Adebanjo, statesman and one of the leading voices in the South West region of the country does not sit on the fence on national issues. For the umpteenth time, the octogenarian is saying that the nation should be restructured immediately. He believes that 2019 elections would not be possible unless the nation is restructured. He foresees chaos in Nigeria, if nothing is done about his prescription.
In this interview with WILLY EYA, he was in his elements like never before and bared his mind on various issues including how he allegedly made All Progressives Congress (APC) National Leader, Asiwaju Bola Ahmed Tinubu, who he is today.
Can we just start by sharing your thoughts on the state of affairs in the country today?
It is obvious and unfortunate. We are not where we should be, due to bad management, bad leadership, due to lack of policy and direction; all these because we have an inequitable constitution and until that problem is solved, we can never have peace in Nigeria. There is Boko Haram there, Biafra there, the Indigenous People of Biafra (IPOB), the Niger Delta militants there and restructuring which is the constitutional agitation in the South West as against violent agitation in the South East and South South. So, there is agitation all over the country. When you hear us talking of restructuring, we are the honest people who want Nigeria to be one. Anybody opposed to restructuring now is not a friend of Nigeria and is not patriotic. You must restructure now before anything. No restructuring, no 2019, forget it. We must continue to have this discussion. What is the root cause of the Niger Delta Avengers? They want self-determination. They want to control their resources. That is their own case. You say no, and you are fighting them. Consider the amount you are using now to fight them. Consider the amount you are losing for not getting the products produced in the Niger Delta. Consider the amount you are using to ensure that the Avengers are suppressed. Consider having our products in maximum position, selling it and then having peace. If there is no political stability, you can never have peace. If there is no peace, you cannot have progress. If Buhari is serious at all, if he were patriotic enough that this country would be united in peace, he should restructure the country now. There should be no prevarication about it. Anybody talking about 2019 election or this party or that party is just deceiving himself. They do not love the country. We must be united on the condition that everybody must be satisfied with the law that governs us. It should not be on condition that one side is satisfied, the other one is oppressing and the other one is being suppressed. Nothing positive would happen in Nigeria until we solve the national question. Go all over the world, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, even Russia and Great Britain that claims some homogeneity, Scotland till today is still looking for self-government. So, why should it be a problem for us to sit down and say we want to stay together on agreed terms? What is the problem there? If Buhari has no private or secret agenda, people say if they want to live together, let them settle the terms of living together. What is wrong with that, except they want to cheat? People say we want to live with you, but let me know under what condition we are going to live together. They say no, we must live together under a condition that is imposed on me now. One thing that everybody must know is that the constitution that Buhari is insisting upon is a military constitution. It is a constitution imposed on us by the military in 1966. It is not the constitution that we had from our colonial masters that our founding fathers got for the nation’s independence. If you say let us go back to that, what is wrong with that? Are you now wiser than your forefathers?
Apart from the core Northern bloc of the country, all other geo-political zones are in support of restructuring. Even with the realities on ground, why is the North so stubborn about maintaining the status quo?
The status quo favours the North and I would continue to say that. Buhari has a favoured agenda. I challenge him openly that he would not implement the 2014 National Confab report, because he is in favour of the North and against the South. The people are resisting it and you are now saying that they are causing confusion. How can they be causing confusion? You beat a baby and you say he should not cry. The military under their revolution in 1996 created more local governments in the North because they constitute the majority in the military. They created more local governments in the North and said we should be distributing revenue on the basis of local governments. So, they legalised cheating in Nigeria and you say we should keep quiet and continue like that.
With the agitations everywhere, do you think Nigeria would survive along this path? Where do you think we are going?
We are going for disintegration. That is what I am sorry about. You cannot keep the country together like this. You would continually be suppressing there and suppressing there. The Southern Kaduna affair, the people there shouted against regionalism, because of the oppression there. They said the Fulani were oppressing them. If you look at the recommendations of the 2014 National Confab, we said any area that has economic interests are free to stay together after a referendum of 71 per cent. That was how we brought in regionalism. We did all that to make sure we stay together. If you look at the agitation of the South South, South East, they are not even insisting on restructuring; it is restructuring within Nigeria or outside of it. We even understand that some radical Yoruba have drawn the map of the Oduduwa Republic and all that, but we are keeping them down. There is an advantage in the economy of scale but we cannot keep them down for too long when we know that they are being cheated. We say those areas that they feel they are being cheated; let us iron it out so that we can stay together. What is wrong with that?
There are insinuations that even though the issue of agitation is more pronounced in the South East and South South that the South West is also seriously planning ahead. There are feelers that efforts are ongoing to realise the Oodua Republic. How true is that?
The question I should ask you is when you talk about MASSOB and IPOB, why do they want to go? You are talking about the reaction, but what is the action that caused the reaction? That is why I believe the Federal Government and the APC are composed of the rudiments of Awolowo’s boys who claim to be Awoists, but I do not know how they can be comfortable under this government. And unfortunately, the governors of the Alliance for Democracy (AD) that formed the legacy party of the APC were elected into office on the basis of restructuring. Why are they now quiet? This is because they have got the crumbs from the table. When you speak to some of them, they say one thing or the other; they are satisfied with the crumbs from the table. Why some of us are insisting on restructuring is that whatever benefits they are getting, they should be getting it as a right. On restructuring, we have constitutionalised rotational presidency. If the presidency comes to the South, it goes to the North and vice versa. Every region and zone will know when the presidency would come to it. The question of fighting tooth and nail would stop. Whenever there is a vacancy, you know where it goes. The rivalry for that seat would be located to that place. We have devolved power. All the autocratic power that Buhari is using now, we have reduced it and I continue to say and they have not refuted it that Buhari under the constitution and any president under the present constitution is the most powerful president in the whole world. Because of the enormous powers at the presidency, at the National Confab, we now said, we have devolved powers, created more states and we limited the Federal Government to what they can cope with. What concerns the ordinary man was devolved to the regions, to the states. Nigerians in Ijebu Igbo there, how many of them have even gone to Abuja, the Federal Capital Territory (FCT). The places they relate with are their local government areas. Sometimes, they go to their regional area, which is all. All the projects that Pa Awolowo executed were because of the constitution that we had then. He gave free education, free health services and so on and there was no record that he went for Tafawa Balewa for subsidy. Because of the way the constitution then was structured, he could plan his resources. I repeat, because the present constitution favours them all round, both materially and otherwise, even when they contribute the least to the purse of the federation, that is why they are hesitant. If not so, come let us go for restructuring. And in the First Republic to show that they are just being unfair, when the country was living on cocoa, groundnut and perm kernel, the West was having the advantage of Cocoa, the East perm kernel and the North the groundnut pyramid, they did not complain then. This is why every time; I continue to support the South South for their resource control. It is not because I like Jonathan that time, but it is the principle for which we have fought and stood for before the military came in. Let them refute the allegation that it was not the military that caused all these problems.
Not a few argue that the North is having its way in the politics of the country because the South has not been able to come together as a united house. Do you agree with this position?
That is true. It is true because the colonialists imposed a fictitious population of the North on us. That was how they were able to have more members in the National Assembly. The population with which they did the representation of allocation was fraudulent. You travel to the North; where do you find the population. I told one of them that it is in Nigeria that we falsify geography. What everybody learnt in geography is that the nearer you go to the desert, the smaller the population. In Australia, Canada, everywhere, it is the same. It is only in Nigeria that the nearer you get to the desert, the more the population. That is to show you how fraudulent Nigeria is. You can imagine that under this constitution, they are distributing the nation’s revenue on the basis of landmass. An arid area is a qualification to take money from the purse. It is not for reason of productivity. Look at the constitution. It talks about area and landmass. It is not on the basis that the landmass is producing something; no, because it is a desert, it is an advantage. For the fact that you are producing, it is a disadvantage. The constitution is fraudulent. And I am not the first to say it. Rotimi Williams said it. He said that our constitution is a fraudulent document. And when he was arguing, he said it was fraudulent because the preamble said we the people of Nigeria and that we did not make the constitution. So, those are the fraudulent contents of the constitution and it has not been rectified. So, until rectified, we are practising a fraudulent constitution. I think it is a shame to all these politicians who are in government to say that we are now under a civilian administration. The truth is that we are operating a military constitution. If we had, had a really progressive and dynamic constitution, the Abdulsalami constitution would have been done with immediately former president, Olusegun Obasanjo got there. But because he wanted to take advantage of the inequity in the constitution, instead of working to change the inequity in the constitution, he clamoured for a third term.
Recently, governors of the South West zone irrespective of party affiliation met; did the meeting have any economic undertone or was it for political reasons?
Nothing would come out of such meeting until we resolve the issue of restructuring. All that they are doing would come to naught until the country is restructured. This is because the South West region is cheated under this constitution. So, for whatever thing you are coming together, you have to resolve the issue of restructuring first. Let me give you an example; Lagos and Kano had the same population before the military did what they did. The military now created states and they created Jigawa from Kano and they now created local governments. In Lagos, 20 local governments and 77 in Kano and Jigawa. And they now say that the money that is coming from the Niger Delta would be distributed on the number of local governments that you have. You can imagine the disparity between Lagos and Kano. And that was why Tinubu when he was governor of Lagos State, took Obasanjo to court when Obasanjo suppressed his allocation. And that is the man that is now keeping quiet when we now say that the constitution must be restructured. Those of us hammering on restructuring, we are hammering equity in the federation so that we can stay together. We are the advocates of a united Nigeria. Any opposition to restructuring is the enemy of a united Nigeria and advocate of disintegration of the country. This is because the people that are being oppressed would not keep quiet. You can bring all the battalions of the country, they would not keep quiet. Those of us talking about restructuring in the South West are the modest group, our youths are not asking for restructuring. I am revealing that to you. The youth of Yoruba land, they have drawn the Oduduwa Republic. They have drawn their map and everything. But we said no, we could stay together under an equitable condition. That is why we are begging these people to make sense and restructure the country. The meeting we are trying to organise in Yorubaland is not for any political party. We are summoning all the Yoruba of all political persuasions. It is like the nationalist movement before independence. Let us get our independence and anybody can go back to his political party. What we are saying is that irrespective of political party; let us get what is our right first. By the time we achieve that, anybody can go to the party he wants.
So, are you suggesting that restructuring must be done before the 2019 general elections?
Yes, restructuring must be done before 2019. I am saying that until that is done, anybody doing elections is deceiving himself. That is what has been happening since 1999. I want anybody who is sincere in the South in particular to fault my position. The APC said one of the conditions of alliance was restructuring. But no sooner Buhari got there, he turned deaf ears. I am not taking any chance again. They say let them come into alliance, when we win the election, we do what we want to do. No. Let us settle our problems first, and then we can form the government.
Recently, former Lagos State governor, Asiwaju Bola Tinubu made insinuations of his desire to contest the presidency. What is your reaction to that?
He has the right to do that, but that is not the contention now. When we get our acts right by restructuring, anybody who wants to go to the moon can go. What I am saying is that before he does that, it would be under a fair constitution to the electorate. All that is personal. If you want to be a president under a fair constitution, good luck. But it would be a disservice for him to collude or combine with anybody or organisation under this constitution as a Yoruba man to say you want to go anywhere. It would be unpatriotic of anybody. Whether you are an Easterner, South South man, South West or anywhere, if you do not hammer on the restructuring of the country, you are not honest to yourself.
Recently, the new Ohanaeze president paid a courtesy visit to Afenifere and you personally received him on behalf of the leader of the apex Yoruba organisation. Was the visit a mere formality or meant to strengthen cooperation between the two ethnic power blocs?
It was a visit and we are talking the same thing. I said I would not come together with anybody now until we settle the country. I said go and organise your people in the South East and insist on restructuring. Let the South South also do so; when we get that done, we can come together. That is what I told the Ohanaeze President General. Anybody saying the APC is not good, PDP is not good, nobody is good until the country is restructured. When we get the right constitution, then we can talk about which party to belong to and we would know what we are fighting for. If you fight a battle under this constitution of the winner takes all as Buhari is doing now, you know what it means. What are the APC members doing when all the security officers are Fulani? That is why I said that any one of them searching for one office or the other is unpatriotic, deceitful and selfish. They are not doing anything for the interest of their people. I said that before that the APC is a conglomeration of the incompatibles. The only thing that united them before the election was the quest to get rid of former President Jonathan. And everybody was united on the corruption of Jonathan’s administration including myself. Many people did not know, but where Jonathan won my favour, was his soft spot for restructuring. Of all the previous presidents, he had the courage to set up the National Conference. All others before him jettisoned it. He said give me a chance and I would implement it. This is very important, because each time I say this, they would say after all, you supported Jonathan. I have never supported Jonathan on corruption. No nationalist or politician worth his name would support corruption. And I said it that Buhari, if you are serious with fighting corruption, doing that is not consistent with restructuring of the country. Anybody that is corrupt, deal with him.
Do you agree with those who insist that Northerners feel that this country belongs to them?
What you are talking about is what we have been fighting before independence. When the Macpherson Constitution that divided the nation into three was made in 1951, East, West and the North, it was supposed to last five years. There was no provision for premiership. It was a unitary constitution. It was the Action Group led by late Chief Awolowo that moved the motion for self-government in 1953, but Macpherson said no. At that time, each region sent a minister to the centre. We won the whole of the Western region. So, we sent minister from the West. And Macpherson said, if you were going to move this motion, no member of my cabinet would take part. The constitution of Nigeria was on three legs. The West withdrew and the tripod could not stand again. That was what led to the Constitutional Conference of 1954. It was at that conference that Dr. Azikiwe was converted to be a federalist. It was also at that conference that Sardauna was converted to be a federalist, because after the motion for self-government, he was annoyed. When they told him to go to the centre, he said no, I am going to stay in the region. The bulk of the powers then were in the regions. When they were returning then from the London Constitutional conference, it was at the airport that Dr. Azikiwe declared for federalism and said federalism is imperative. There was no premiership until 1954. When Macpherson Constitution started in 1952, we only had leaders of government business.
What are your greatest fears for Nigeria?
My greatest fear is that if Buhari insists on not restructuring the country, there will be chaos. You do not need a crystal ball to know that. Have we had peace since he came into office? If he is not fighting the Avengers, he is killing the IPOB members; Biafrans or the Fulani herdsmen are killing them in Southern Kaduna. It is always the problem of the minority. The restructuring and clamour for a truly federal constitution is a solution to the minority problem in the country. It would solve a lot of problems.
Talking about the health of President Muhammadu Buhari, there seems to be a conspiracy of silence by the British government and even the media about the whole thing. Are you not surprised that in this age of communication that not much is known about the condition of the Nigerian president?
Their interest is that those who do not know rule the country. They deliberately put the leadership of the country in the hands of the North at independence. If you know the history of the country, you should know what I am talking about. It is a long story. That time the Sardauna said he was going to serve under Azikiwe, but the British people did not allow that. And unfortunately, that time, the NPC and Zik’s NCNC entered into an alliance. But Chief Awolowo foresaw all that. All the alliance that they had with the North, what has come out of it? Those of us in the West foresaw all this. The North doesn’t want to govern, they want to rule in perpetuity. They believe it is their right. That is what we have been fighting before independence. Dr. Azikiwe fought, but when it mattered most, he capitulated. It was an error of political judgement to have accepted to serve as the Governor General then instead of forming an alliance with Chief Awolowo to form the government.
You talked about the alliance the East had with the North not working, but a similar failure of such arrangement is also playing out after the South West entered into an alliance with the North in the last election. Was it a miscalculation by the West also?
The purpose of the South going into an alliance with the North is different from what the North enters into any alliance with the South. It is like the foolishness of Tinubu when I warned him from going into alliance with them. He thought he was going to make use of Buhari and Buhari knew that he was going to make use of him. He has the mistaken belief which I still believe that he is still having now that if I go along with them, Buhari would allow him become the president. He is just deceiving himself. It can never be until we arrive at how we are going to have it. They have not been reading, when we told them that Sauduana said he was going to rule the country until he drops the Quran in the sea, they thought we were joking. When we told them about Buhari, they thought we were joking. Go and see when the North has been clamouring to rule the country. They do not want to share. If they say they want to go into alliance, they are just finding a way to put you in their pockets. Go and ask Tinubu what Buhari is doing now with this administration. Would he be honest to say that he is following what they agreed on? APC has legacy parties; what did they agree upon. Did they agree upon the fact that majority of the security posts must be Fulani as it is now. You media men should be asking questions. I am too old to speak this way. Tinubu and his people say they are the progressives, how progressive are they in collaboration with the CPC? What is progressive in the CPC programme? Even the supporters of Buhari say this is the most nepotistic government that Nigeria has had. Neither Tinubu nor the APC has said anything about it since they came into government. Is that what he promised the Yoruba when he was going there that they would be suppressed and that all the principal officers must be given to the Fulani?
That brings me to the statement by Prof Ango Abdullahi that the North is ready for a break up if the need be. What is your take on such a statement from a statesman like him?
Let him not break it up; just agree on restructuring. He is just talking gas. Ango Abdullahi was the man who said it is our turn to rule. That once we have this power, we would not give it up. He said it before the last election. What is he now talking? All these people, we know them. Many of you were not born when they were committing all these atrocities. Before the election, I told you that Buhari is a dictator. He does not believe in the rule of law. He is an ethnic jingoist. He is a religious extremist. When we said that, they said no; he did all that when he was the Military Head of State, he cannot do it under a civilian government. Tell me all those things that I accused him of, which one is a lie. Buhari has vindicated me on every issue. Previously, I said that I am disappointed that Buhari has not disappointed me. Let him do those things I said he would not do. One of the things I said he would not do is that he would not implement the National Conference.
In a recent interview, former chairman of the APC, Ajomale said you were one of those that imposed former Lagos State deputy governor, Buknor-Akerele on Tinubu during Asiwaju’s administration. Is it true?
Where was Ajomale when we were running the party? Nobody imposed anybody. Akerele was with us then in the NADECO. Tinubu was abroad. We were the people facing the fire at home. When they said I imposed Akerele, they should say I imposed Tinubu too. I do not know Ajomale all this time. Ajomale is a creation of Tinubu. And Tinubu is my own creation by the grace of God. I signed his papers. We conducted the primaries under which he became the governor. If I was partisan, Tinubu would not have been governor. But he won a primary election which we set up which was disputed by the chairman of Lagos AD. When Tinubu won the primaries, he wanted another person and we said no. It was not a question of imposing, but rewarding people who worked for the party. By the time we elected Tinubu, where was Ajomale in those days? What position was he holding in any branch of the Alliance For Democracy (AD)? So, because he has become a stooge of Tinubu now, he can be talking nonsense. They should beware when they cast aspersion on their seniors. Tinubu would not even say what he said.