Onuoha Ukeh, Ismail Omipidan, Chuks Onuoha and Okey Sampson

Reverend Jesse Jackson’s submission that leaders “must be tough enough to fight; tender enough to cry, human enough to make mistakes, humble enough to admit them, strong enough to absorb the pain, and resilient enough to bounce back and keep moving,” appears apt in describing Dr. Orji Uzor Kalu, former Abia State governor and All Progressives Congress (APC) senatorial candidate for Abia North in next Saturday’s election.

Born on April 21, Kalu fits the above description. Belonging to the zodiacal sign called Taurus, which is represented by the bull, he is fearless, bold and driven by his convictions. 

In a two-hour interview session with The Sun team, led by the editor, Daily Sun, Onuoha Ukeh, Kalu spoke about issues that may appear a no-go area, but which he would “stubbornly” never shy away from. He spoke on a wide range of issues, from politics to his days as governor, the economy, corruption and why Nigerians should ignore the likes of former President Olusegun Obasanjo.

Let’s start by congratulating you on your successful medical surgery last year. How are you recuperating?

I am glad to welcome you people here. I went for surgery on October 30, 2018, and I had another surgery on November 1, 2018. I’m getting on very well. Now a very active man is walking slowly and being careful of what I do. It’s dragging me back. Owing to the surgery, I have not followed the presidential campaign. You know I’m a member of the First Lady and President Muhammadu Buhari’s presidential campaign organisations. I have not been able to really participate in the activities of the two organisations, but I thank God.

The German doctors, who did the surgical operation, wanted me to stay in Germany till January 28, 2019, but I said no. I told them that, instead, let me be coming and going. I’m scheduled to go back there in a few days’ time. Actually, I was supposed to have gone to Germany on January 21, but instead I went for an emergency treatment at the Federal Medical Centre (FMC), Umuahia. The medical director, Dr. Chukwu Abali, gave me a very sound urologist, Dr. George, who placed me on bed rest for five days. Later, we spoke with my doctors in Germany and they gave their own advice. I’m getting better by the day. I feel very strong. Although, on January 18 and 19, I had some challenges, the FMC people were able to get me back on track. I had the challenge because, immediately I came back from Germany, I started running around, but they had to put me back on track.

There was a controversy when you had that surgery, to the extent the social media was awash with rumours that you were dead. How did you take the rumour of your death?

Well, I took it like any other thing. I wasn’t bothered because I knew it was what people who never wished me well wanted. I heard that some members of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) in Abia State were in jubilation mood, especially those from Abia North. I learnt they were saying there was no contest anymore. So, I take the death rumour as a blessing. I never cared. I never bothered. I hold no grudge against anybody about it.

Have you ever feared for your life?

Never, because I know I will die one day. I’m not afraid of death; that is the truth. There was a time when there were threats to my  life, but I was never scared. Recently, in Abam, they found three boys with rifles, who stormed my campaign rally to kill me. I wasn’t bothered. I still went into the crowd the way I used to. Any day I die, we will accept it as the will of God.

Some people are afraid of failure and other things; is there anything you fear?

The only thing I fear in life is hunger because it can destroy a nation. Apart from that, I have no fear because I absolutely believe that whatever happens to a man is according to destiny.

By April this year, you will be 59. How has life been?

Life has been with a lot of challenges. I have faced a lot of challenges in life. I have also recorded milestones. Life has been with ups and downs, which are experienced by all human beings. The greatest challenge I face in life is that of envy by our people; people are so envious of what I do. I started early in life. What I do always attracts people’s attention. Remember, I was in office as governor for less than eight months when President Olusegun Obasanjo then pronounced me “Action Governor of Nigeria” openly at Enyimba Stadium, Aba. He made the pronouncement because there were some roads he passed some months earlier, while he was going Calabar. The roads were very bad.  When, as President, he came to commission those roads under my eight months in office, he couldn’t believe it. Obasanjo, therefore, pronounced me “Action Governor.” I give thanks to God.

Do you feel fulfilled, looking back at your life?

Yes, I feel fulfilled as a man. I feel fulfilled. However, the only thing I don’t feel good about is that Nigeria has not used the enormous resources in the hands of Nigerians to uphold the country, rebuild the economy and set it on the path of a 21st century economy. I believe that, right from the end of the civil war, this country could have done better than where we are today. But we are starting again with President Muhammadu Buhari.

When you look back, are there actions you took that, if given another chance, you would want them changed?   

Yes, I did a lot of things I regretted when I was governor. As a young man who was just 38 years old, I made some irrational decisions that would not be made if I were allowed to take those decisions again today. But I carry it; it is my own burden.

Could you please share them with us?

No, I cannot, because these are things that are personal to me. I know I made mistakes here and there, I bear that cross and I give thanks to God that, at least, I am alive to realise there were certain things I did that were not supposed to be and I try to make amends.

Were some of them political? 

Most of them were political and only a few people will realise they were like that.

Could making Chief T.A. Orji governor of Abia be one of those decisions?    

As I said, they are very personal to me. Well, it could be one of them, but I’m not going to tell you ‘yes’ or ‘no’ as an answer.

What measures have you taken to correct some of them?

I have already corrected most of them, in the process of dealing with people, in trusting people and in giving my life to people. I trusted people so much and they stabbed me in the back.  Some of the people blaming me for making T.A. Orji governor supported the decision. The only person who asked me not to support T.A. Orji, based on what she saw earlier, was my mother. It is on record. Every other person, including senators who are today blaming me for making T.A. governor, were the supporters who asked me to put him there. I didn’t put him there to close my back because I had no back to be closed, but I put him because we were in a political war with Obasanjo then and I never wanted to leave office without showing him that we could install the governor of our state; so, T.A. Orji was the material we picked. That was the issue and people did not vote for him because he was T.A. He was in prison then. They voted for him because of me, and that is on record.

You formed a party, Progressive Peoples Alliance (PPA), which produced two governors. You later left the party and people said your exit denied PPA the opportunity of becoming the third strongest political party in Nigeria. What do you have to say? 

I didn’t leave the party until I joined APC. I was a member of the party till I joined APC. I contested for the presidency with PPA and came third, with five million votes. I contested the 2015 senatorial election under the PPA. So, I was with the party till I joined APC.

The two governors we made had their own agenda. One of them was ambitious and wanted to be the Vice President or the President, which was (Ikedi) Ohakim. The other one was just treacherous; so, they caved in, to leave the system we had made.

Before the merger that produced APC, PPA was talking with ACN, when it was only (Babatunde) Fashola as governor of Lagos State. We had a lot of discussions with ACN then on what we were going to do. The merger of APC started then. Senator Bola Tinubu was committed. Fashola was also committed, but the two governors from PPA were not committed. They wanted to get back to PDP; that was the beginning of the destruction of PPA. But I give thanks to God. They were not genuinely democrats and this is why I would say Igbo are not good politicians. They could be good in other fields of endeavours, but they are not good politicians. They do not understand the polity called Nigeria. Nigeria is a polity made up of a lot of intrigues.

When you look at me, you see the face of Nigeria. I went to school in the North. I lived with a Fulani man called Jubril Aminu. I understand the place called Nigeria. I understand the polity called Nigeria. I came back to Lagos to establish my businesses; so, I understand also the Yoruba. You should also understand that I have blood relations from Ilewo in Ijebu, which is where my other grandmother came from. So, I understand the country. I understand this country more than most of our leaders because they don’t understand Nigeria and this is why most of our leaders continue to make mistakes.

The Igbo in general are good people, warm people, receptive people, anywhere you see them; but, in politics, if you allow me to grade them, I might not be able to give them a pass mark because they have not done very well in politics.

What makes a good politician?

A good politician is one who understands the other person’s feelings, who knows that association is for a common good.  A good politician is someone who wants to get political power in order to contribute towards the development of the environment or society where you live. He is someone who considers the other person.

Look at the mistake Ohanaeze has made. If they understand politics, would Ohanaeze, as a cultural group, go to endorse a presidential candidate? They would not do it; they would have been neutral because the group is made up of people from different political parties. I have a lot of respect for Chief John Nwodo, but having sat in that meeting and that decision was taken, he has betrayed most Igbo people who would have helped to sustain the leadership of Ohanaeze. Whether you hate Buhari or you like Atiku, you dare not say it as Ohanaeze. You should remain a neutral body. What faith do you want me as Orji Uzor Kalu or Ken Nnamani, who are in APC, to continue having in Ohanaeze? It means Ohanaeze is political. If Ohanaeze is endorsing a PDP candidate, it has excluded APC members. It means we are going to have our own APC Ohanaeze.

By that action, Ohanaeze has disintegrated. Before now, anywhere I went, I took Nwodo as my leader of Ohanaeze, but will I again take him as my leader? That’s the question. They have divided the Igbo instead of uniting them. That is what I mean when I say our people don’t understand politics; if they do, Ohanaeze would not make that kind of mistake.

You were in the House of Representatives and later became a governor for eight years. People might say, what is Kalu still looking for that he wants to go to the Senate?     

Yes, I was in the House of Representatives in 1991. I was deputy chairman, House Committee on Finance and Immigration, because my party, the NRC (National Republican Convention), was in minority then. However, I was so close to the SDP (Social Democratic Party) people that you would never know I was not from SDP. In the House, I proposed the bill on dual citizenship, which was signed into law by President Ibrahim Babangida. Why I always want to be where political decisions are being taken is because my contributions will help the people.

The Senate needs people like me. With my experience as a House of Representatives member and governor, I have a lot to contribute in the making of laws for good governance. The current Senate could have done better by forging a good relationship with the President, coming from the same party. There are things they have done that are good, but in their relationship with the President, they have not done well.

It would be unfair to my people in Abia North if I stay and a novice would be our representative. People who have what it takes must represent us. Going to the Senate, after the political posts I held, is not out of place. What would you say of people who were heads of state and they came back to play politics? So, asking me what I want after being a member of the House of Representatives and two-term governor is like asking Obasanjo, Buhari, Babangida, who were military heads of state and entered politics, what they are still looking for. It is like asking Atiku Abubakar, who was Vice President, what he is still looking for.

What are your chances of winning the senatorial election, especially when people say the APC is not accepted in the South East?

APC is quite on ground here despite what people are saying. The other time, they said it was an Hausa party, but Atiku is not an Igbere man. Both Buhari, in APC, and Atiku, in PDP, are from the North; whatever they call us does not make any meaning. The most important thing is that we are going to use the vehicle in which we are in to get something for the region as members of the union. They will vote for me. We will win because our people are not voting for party but for individuals who will contribute meaningfully to the development of the area.

You have been on trial since you left office as governor. How do you feel?

I feel very good because it is part of what makes me who I am. A judge I have seen working hard is Justice Idris and I am saying this without minding the ruling he gave against me or for me. I see a very sound jurist in Justice Idris, JCA. He is very sound in his decision-making. He is very sound in his work. I am discussing him now because he is no longer handling my matter. If he were still handling my matter, I would not discuss him. I saw a man who came to the courtroom prepared, whether he is for me or against me, it doesn’t make any meaning; he is a judge with his own opinion.

People said he was biased against me, that was their opinions; but my opinion of Justice Idris is that I saw a man who was ready to do his job. The other judges I can put in the mould of Justice Idris are Justices Anuli Chikelu and Binta Nyako. They are always strong on the ground. Justice Idris was always ready to do his job. If he tells you come back tomorrow, ruling will be ready by that tomorrow. Some judges would tell you to come back tomorrow and ruling would only be ready in three months. So, I saw a man who was ready to do his job, whether he was biased or not against me; it’s a question of a higher court to question his decisions.

How do you define leadership?          

To me, leadership is when you give all you have for people to be happy, for the polity to be calm, for the rule of law to be maintained and for the people to be happy. A good leader must bear in mind that he is committed to the people that voted for him or her. A good leader should also ensure real democratic process and he should run a government guided by the majority of the people, not quite by everybody; that is democracy. A good leader may not be loved by all.

I have just defined Orji Kalu’s democratic process to you, that is, a government guided by the majority of the people; so, once the majority are happy and good, you are a good leader.

Looking back at Nigeria’s leadership history, who are those you would pick as true leaders?  

You would really be surprised at what I will say. I will define two leaders that I like. I like Chief Obafemi Awolowo so much and people would say it was because he was close to me before his death. Well, I found friendship with the sage. One day, I was going from Victoria Island, Lagos, where I lived, to my office in Apapa. I saw a Limousine, whose tyre got bust, by Leventis Motors. I stopped, looked inside and saw who looked like Chief Awolowo. When I looked close, I discovered it was him. 

Before then, I had never met him anywhere in my life. I quickly came down. My driver parked. Chief Awolowo’s people were trying to bring out the spare tyre and I quickly ran down to him, greeted and told him I could take him where he was going. He came down, entered my car and we drove him to his house in Apapa. That was how I came to know him. So, I used to go from my office in those days to his house to eat; that was how I came to know his children, Oluwole and Ambassador Dosumu. I knew them through their father. He was a fantastic man. Then I used to close my office some days and went to stay one or two hours with him. I saw what Nigeria lost in that man and I cry every day.

The second leader I can tell you I cherish much was Sir Ahmadu Bello because he was able to give northerners that unity of purpose and that is what leadership is all about. Dr. Michael Okpara, yes, I liked him for his agricultural knowledge. I had brisk interaction with Okpara, not as I did with Awolowo. In fact, I was the one who convinced Chief Awolowo to meet President Babangida before his death because he said he would never go there. But because of my closeness with him, I was able to convince him and he went to Dodan Barracks to see President Babangida for the first and last time. What I’m telling you today, I have not told anybody and IBB is alive.

I told Babangida that Papa Awo was coming to visit him. He doubted me and said everybody had made efforts for the man to even speak with him but it never worked. I was able to convince Papa Awo because our relationship grew so strong that, at a point, it became like that of father and son; that was why, after his death, I was going to Ikene very often to greet Mama until she also passed on.

Life is not about what people think. People think that having 20 aircraft and living in mansions are what life is all about. No. Life is about what you are able to do for other people and what they can remember you for when you are no more. There are people whose main pre-occupation is just to acquire wealth. It does not cross their minds that these things are vanity upon vanity, when those riches do not trickle down to the people.

Some people say you joined APC because of your case with EFCC.

That is not true. I joined APC mainly because of Buhari. In 2003, I was with Buhari strongly. In 2007, he joined me at the Yar’Adua Centre when I declared for the presidency and later worked with him. In 2011, I endorsed Buhari openly saying he was the most honest Nigerian living and that caused a lot of rift between me and the government in power then. I did not join APC for Buhari to stop  my trial. I know the man very well. I have never discussed my trial with Buhari and I will not discuss it with him because I have followed all legal processes; there is nobody in Buhari’s government that will say I have begged him or gone to his house to discuss my trial with him. I know that my trial is 100 per cent political and I know it is still political.

People are simply afraid of what I will do and I want to tell them to stop being afraid because I am created by the same God that created them. I will become whatever God has destined me to be and no human being can stop it. I have everything to be what I want to be; it’s just for God to keep me alive to achieve that.

So, when people see us in APC, they think we are there to curry Buhari’s favour. No. I know the type of man he is. He used to come to this house (in Igbere) when he was not President. I took him round Abia. I took him round Imo State and other places. I know Buhari’s mindset. His mindset is that money should be conserved and used for poor people.  I cannot go and tell Buhari to call someone and tell him to stop my trial. He would ask me to stop coming to his house. That is the truth. So, if I know that, I would go to him to discuss about our party, to discuss about Nigeria and I would never mention my trial, he would be happy and welcome me. But the moment I go there to tell him ‘how can this happen?’  I would not come into his house again. So, this is the man called Buhari; people don’t even know him very well.

Certain things have happened of late that some people say Buhari does not respect the judiciary. I don’t want to go into that, but what I want to say is that Buhari wishes the judiciary well. He has just given autonomy to the state judiciary. However, I expect the President to give standing directives to his law officers that they must obey the orders of the courts and that is what make the political society.

Shortly after T.A. Orji was elected governor, you fell out with him. What went wrong?

Well, I fell out with T.A. Orji from the day he came out from prison and the question you’ve just asked are one of those things I want to reserve in my mind. Having said that, I want to inform you that the day I was handing over to him, I told him that he should rule Abians with his conscience. One wouldn’t have said that to someone you worked with for eight years and was so dear to you, if nothing was wrong. Could that have been possible if there was nothing in my mind? I found out immediately he was released from prison that the man had no conscience.

He worked with you for eight years, you couldn’t find that out until that moment. What could have happened?

I found out some traces of it but I thought it was gossip because most politicians gossip a lot. It was the day he came out from prison and slept in my house in Lagos with his wife for two days that I came to realise what people were telling me about him was true. He had been elected governor then. He and his wife had some discussions, they didn’t know I overheard them, and that showed me the man had no conscience.

Having overheard their discussion, which, perhaps was not in your favour, you still brought him down to Abia to be sworn in?

What could I have done? I had to obey the law because he had been elected. He came out from prison and I brought him back to Abia after two days.

How would you describe his eight-year rule of Abia State?

It was a waste. T.A. Orji wasted Abia people’s time and money and I still apologise to Abia people for supporting those that supported T.A. Orji to be governor of Abia State. I apologise sincerely from the best part of my heart because if there was no T.A. Orji, there would be no Ikpeazu. It is one of those mistakes that has formed a burden in my heart and I am carrying it. I regretted the action, yes.

Some people say that Igbo politicians do not honour those who made them. They cite examples of what happened in Enugu State, where Chimaroke Nnamani brought Sullivan Chime, and they had a problem. They cite your own case with T.A. Orji and the case of Anambra, where Peter Obi brought Willie Obiano and they fell apart. Is this the problem of Igbo politicians or that of politicians generally?

Well, I don’t want to discuss individuals, because I am close to Obiano, Chimaroke and Sullivan and Peter Obi. I will not want to discuss this issue. However, these are part of what I told you initially, that we might be the best of professors, engineers, etc, but we are not good politicians. This is why we were able to allow Obasanjo to use us, when Senate President was in our zone, to change as many Senate Presidents as possible, because we are not good politicians.

In politics, they say the interest is what is permanent. Is there any likelihood that you will ever settle with ex-Governor T.A. Orji?

I am not God. I have forgiven T.A. Orji for everything he did to me. I have forgiven him; that is the truth. I made a mistake in making him governor.

You brought Dr. Okezie Ikpeazu into government. Now he is the governor, what is your relationship with him?

Yes, I brought him from a school in Enugu State and made him chairman of Obingwa LGA first. Now I have no relationship whatsoever with him. He has not even paid me my pensions. T.A. Orji owed me all my pensions and Okezie is still owing me pensions. I have not met him, I have not spoken to him since he became governor; so, there is no relationship.

At times people say I am supporting Okezie Ikpeazu. How can I support somebody I have not met? Even when we were selecting Uche Ogah as APC governorship candidate, some of his brothers told him that I was supporting Okezie Ikpeazu. I was taken aback, because I have never met Okezie Ikpeazu anywhere, let alone discussing and talking about support.

How do you rate his administration?

Well, from what people say, he has not done very well. He did not pay salaries and pensions. It is true. He did not pay me my pension. I am a good example.

Do you consider yourself a political godfather? Because, from the time you were a governor till now, all the people in charge in Abia government are those you brought to power and politics.

No, I will not claim I brought them to power. It was God who did. They worked with me, and, luckily, God gave them other positions. So, the glory belongs to God.  I could be the instrument, but God takes the glory.

What are the chances of APC in the governorship election in Abia State?

The chances are very high. Uche Ogah ran for governor before. Then  he was not a candidate of a party; he was just an aspirant. Now, as a candidate, he will be accepted by the people. Secondly, because I was a governor here, whose agricultural policies and free education are still remembered, I think my personality will also help him. During my government, we gave electricity to almost all communities. We offered complete free education from primary to secondary (level), before Obasanjo came with his Universal Basic Education. In our university, the fee was N100,000. The students paid N7,000 and my government paid the remaining N93,000 for all students, no matter where you came from. There were about 35,000 students in that university. We paid N93,000 for each of them, whether they were from Abia, Enugu or Ebonyi. I paid the N93,000 subvention for the students for the eight years I was in office. I never stopped. All these will count for our party, the APC. 

What were the issues between you and Obasanjo?

The issues I had with Obasanjo were very simple. First was the issue of the Enugu-Port Harcourt express road, which he did not fix and was collecting tollgate fee. I brought a bulldozer to pull down the tollgate at Lokpa-Nta area of the road and at Isiala Ngwa. I told him nobody would collect money again, since the road was no repaired. After seven months, he dismantled all the tollgates in Nigeria.

Second was the issue of taking him to the Supreme Court for interpretation of the law, in which the Attorney-General of Abia State, who was later joined by the Attorney-General of Lagos, went to court. The last straw that broke the camel’s back was the issue of third term, in which he was deeply involved, though he denied it. The governors alive knew he called us in numbers to plan how he could continue in office. Senators were given money. The late Senator Uche Chukwumerije showed me his own N50 million, which we agreed he should send back to them. He sent it back. For doing that, I shelved my plan to go to the Senate. I asked him to go for second term. That was how I paid him back for standing with me. Ask people like Senator Chris Adighije and Prof. Maurice Iwu. I told them why I would not go to Senate at that time. I told them I had to support Chukwumerije who supported me during the Third Term battle. The business of politics is support. He supported me and I needed to support him and I did.

How would you describe Obasanjo’s years, from 1999 to 2007?

Honestly, Obasanjo is the one who damaged democracy. I don’t know what he should be telling Buhari. It was under him that  local government elections were postponed, because he did not want the AD. I told (Segun) Osoba and Niyi Adebayo and they did not take me seriously. That was why both of them did not get second term, not that they were not popular. They were popular men, but Obasanjo tricked them. Bola Tinubu listened to me. Others did not listen.

Obasanjo okayed caretaker committees at local government areas and directed all states to put caretaker committee heads, which is not in our Constitution. It was unconstitutional to do that. I opposed it. The Constitution said elected local government chairmen.

Are you saying throughout Obasanjo’s tenure he did not do anything right?

We had so much goodwill as a nation and oil price was at the top of the roof, but he did not do anything tangible. He was fighting those who opposed him. He took away our oil blocks in Abia. He ceded 46 oil blocks that belonged to Abia State to another state and said it did not belong to Abia, just to spite me. That’s the kind of man he is.

What was your relationship with the late President Umaru Yar’Adua?

We were close. When President Yar’Adua came in as President, he asked me what he would do for me. I told him nothing. He offered me ministerial position and I rejected it. I instead presented Chuka Odom, to be made minister. Yar’Adua then spoke with Emir of Katsina to give me a title. I never knew the Emir nor begged him for it, but President Yar’Adua sent a man called Abba Ruma, who was Minister of Agriculture, to tell me that a title would be conferred on me in Katsina. The title was given to me.

Talking about Obasanjo, before the 2015 elections, he was one of those that opposed former President Jonathan. Everybody hailed him for that decision. Today, he is opposing Buhari’s reelection and people are condemning him. Why is this?

The reason is that they have realised who he is.

How would you rate the Buhari government?

President Buhari has done very well, although there are some areas in the economy we need to touch when we get re-election. Rome was not built in a day. We have seen lapses on how to jump-start the economy, but he has done very well in most of the things and we are going to do much more better. This government will bring economic prosperity for the Nigerian people.

We have heard that South-East should support Buhari for an Igbo man to be President in 2023. However, there are principal actors in Buhari’s government, the Vice President and the works minister, who are telling the Yoruba to return Buhari for them to get the presidency in 2023. Where does that leave the Igbo?

Well, the Igbo will contest in 2023; nothing will stop us and morality will take its stand. Nigerians will check whether it is morally right for Igbo to be in the polity of this union, or whether the polity is shakable that we are not part of it. Igbo will contest in 2023; anybody who is interested should contest. Whoever wins will be the President of Nigeria.

Is there any possibility that you will ever retire from politics?

I am not going to retire from politics now. I will be in active politics till when I am about 75 or 80 and then I will stop, if God gives me that life.

What do you like about politics?

Before I became a governor, I was tarring road for my people. I built a bridge when my father retired. The places I built industries in Aba, I tarred roads there. I did that as an individual. However, I found that the only way I could continue tarring roads and giving more help to my people was through politics.  As a private businessman, there is a limit to what I can do. In government, through politics, I can do much more.

What are the things you don’t like about politics?

Gossip, shortchanging, lies, betrayal and envy by political opponents.

But in the midst of all these, you are still in politics.

Yes, of course, because you should not allow never-do-wells to take charge. If we don’t take part, these people will take over and the society will lose out.

Are you likely to encourage any of your children to go into politics?

Yes, if they want. However, they have not shown any interest. The way they speak to me about politics, I doubt if they will participate. My wife and children stay very far from politics. I don’t know tomorrow if they will take interest, but, for today, they don’t see politics as something a reasonable person can do in Nigeria. They even talk about the number of people that come to the house to eat our food and collect money.

Last December, my 10 years old child told me that she could not believe that people came to our house to ask for money even when they knew I came out from the hospital after surgery.

Are you not concerned when people say politics is a dirty game?

That is why we are trying to make it good. This is the reason President Buhari is trying to review the politics of this country, for people to have faith in it. Do you know the amount of money that (used to go) into presidential campaign at a time like this? But Buhari has brought everything down. He said he is not ready to spend excessively.

Are there some Nigerians you are training to take over from you in future?

Of course, there are many Nigerians gaining experience from us in different fields of endeavour. We are training people to take over from us in different areas, including politics. For example, we brought Okezie Ikpeazu from where he used to teach to become a local government chairman and from there he built himself and today he has become a governor. That is why we say that people are taking over. I am the kind of leader that gives people responsibility and allows them do it. So, everybody around me should train himself to be a leader.

So many people who were with us ran for governor and we did not begrudge them even when they succeeded. Anybody who wants to run should run. We allow everybody to do whatever they want. I am the best employer you can have because we can leave the chief executive to do the business. I don’t interfere whatsoever.

What is your advice to Nigerians as we prepare for elections?

My advice to Nigerians is very simple, especially my Igbo brothers. They should remember that one presidential candidate will run for four years and the other one will run for eight years. If the Igbo really want to vie for presidency, which should be open, they should vote for APC. It is the shortest way for them to produce the President. People say the thing is blocked because Igbo are not APC. This is a nation. Nobody gives you power on a platter, you have to fight for power, if you really want power.

Nigerians should be very careful and know  that we can return Nigeria to the locust period. Now we are moving forward. We need to move forward. People like Obasanjo are just looking for where the food is ready. He has no interest of anybody at heart, except his own personal interest. This is a man who confessed to me that he had N20,000.00 in 1999. Go and see the mansions he has and the shares he has in many banks now. Obasanjo should be questioned. I have told them to employ the big five accounting firms in the world to look at what past leaders have. Then we will know who is  corrupt. People hide under democracy, military rule and misappropriate money and nobody tries them.

Since you left office as governor, have you met Obasanjo one-on-one? What was the meeting like?

Well, I have met him several times. I met him with my elder brother, a man of high integrity, Gen. T.Y. Danjuma, when I went with Gen. Danjuma to Mrs. Asika a few years ago. I didn’t greet him because he doesn’t deserve my greeting. And I have seen him in flights and I didn’t greet him because I have no reason to greet him, even though I have forgiven him for all he did to me. Greeting him is like wasting my time. I try to avoid him, not to greet him, and I have done that very well and I will continue doing that, because Obasanjo is nobody’s friend. I will be surprised if he does not sabotage Atiku when he is given any sweetener tomorrow.

From your experience, Nigerians have a lot to learn from you. When are we expecting your memoirs?

I have one memoir I call volume one, which is almost ready. The main book will come. If God gives me life, in the next five or six years, I will write the final memoirs of my life and I will reveal things I have never said to anybody. It will be explosive. You will read about people who pretend to be clean but are not clean.

Do you have time to relax?

Relaxing is what I have not done. This is what my wife, children and doctors are complaining about me. I work so hard. I came in here at 1am and by 5am I was up. Since then I have been receiving people. That is how I operate.

Some Igbo leaders are talking about restructuring. What is your take on that?

They don’t understand the polity of Nigeria. How can you restructure? The only people who can restructure is the Senate of Nigeria, the National Assembly. Some people want to be relevant politically. That’s why they are shouting restructuring. What they should maintain is that the country should have fiscal federalism. This country is more important than anything you want to talk about. It is a big market. Our diversity is our strength and we should utilise it.

Igbo are one of the beneficiaries of this country called Nigeria. There is no part of the country you don’t see Igbo doing their businesses. Igbo should be grateful to God for creating them into Nigeria than those who said they want to get away; it is not possible. What we should do is to take some things in this side of the Constitution and put in the other side, downsize the job of the Federal Government, and everybody will be happy.

Do Igbo need restructuring more than the presidency?

We need the presidency more than restructuring. The presidency is more important. If really there is fairness in Nigeria, I don’t see anything stopping an Igbo man being President in 2023. Igbo should take a shot at it; they should have it.