Former governor of Ogun State, Otunba Gbenga Daniel has decried the insecurity in the country, saying it has reached an unacceptable level. He also declared that zoning of the presidency to different regions should be enshrined in the constitution. This he said has become necessary because of the unique environment of Nigeria and its diversity. At an interview with select senior journalists in Lagos, the former governors stated his reasons for defecting from the PDP to the ruling APC. VINCENT KANU was at the session.
A lot of people are wondering about ideology, personal principles, honour and how you would move from PDP to the APC. What happened?
Let’s look at the state of the parties, and without much ado, if we look at the evolution of the parties, you will come to the conclusion that there aren’t a lot of differences ideologically. That answers the question on ideology. There are two major political parties in the country. Over the years, people have tried to create what I can call a Third Force. I also had a personal experience, but the reality is that, whether we like it or not, we seem to have settled with two parties because all the other Third Forces have not grown beyond mere conglomerates of a few people who felt the urge and the need to do so. The Labour party didn’t develop further. Anambra is the only state you have a different party and we are going to see what happens to it after the November 6 governorship election.
In Ogun State, our PDM experiment didn’t go far and it is the same with all the other parties. In Oyo State, there were attempts to play with one or two of other parties, but it didn’t happen. When you look at the APC, PDP conglomerate, the likes of Atiku, for instance was Vice President for eight years on the platform of PDP. He went to APC and returned to PDP to run the last election. Ditto with the former Senate President, Saraki. He was in PDP and sojourned in APC and returned to PDP. There are not many strong political personalities who have not moved from one party to the other. If you do little research, that is what you find out. Basically, in this country, movement from any of the parties to another one is commonplace. The last Edo State election was a case in point, where the PDP candidate switched to APC and the APC candidate switched to PDP and the people decided. Going forward, the next thing that will happen is more and more personalities with similar characters working together.
My journey to APC is very well known. First and foremost, I’m not denying the fact that I spent all of my eight years as a governor in PDP. Some of us, especially in Ogun State and South-West, helped to develop the brand, PDP. The experiment to take the party to the next level when I made an attempt as the national chairmanship is very well known to you. Politics is about the people you serve. Without trying to sound sectional, a number of people felt at that time, the PDP was going to bring its presidential candidate from the North, and the vice presidential candidate from the East. The natural thing was for the chairman to go the West because whether you like it or not, we can talk of the six zonal structures, but Nigeria still stands on the tripod: North, West and East. By denying the West one of the first three slots, a lot of people felt it was not fair for the West. But because of our level of education and the need to ensure that whatever we do we don’t expose our people to danger, and at our level, we must not be talking of tribal sentiments, so we played it down in the interest of the party and allowed it to go. I don’t think it sounded well with my people. We played it maturely at that time.
However, coming back home, the late Kashamu had emerged as the candidate of the PDP. It was in court. I didn’t think in good conscience that I should recommend for the good people of Ogun State to take his candidacy. The party had expelled Kashamu at that time; so practically, the party officially had no candidate. Legally, he had emerged as the candidate and we were not the best of friends. Nobody could have expected me at that time to begin to campaign for him. I had to look for what I thought was the best for Ogun State in the circumstances, and I think what people should do then was to thank me and a lot of people did that. It was a difficult thing to do; we had to do it for the sake of our state and I didn’t have regrets over what we did. If you therefore look at it from that angle, it was the beginning of my journey out of PDP. You can call it anti-party if you like, but it was something that I thought was in the best interest of our people. Two years later, we gave effect to that move; it was a good time for the party to do something about it. That is really how that journey came about.
Some people in the South-West are agitating for secession. What’s your take?
Ordinarily, nobody wants to pull out of Nigeria. I believe very strongly that our people are united in their aspirations. I think the difference is the level of expectations and the people you can describe as extremists are doing what they think is the best way to go. If our people have a choice and the choice of everybody is to be part of a united Nigeria, where there is equity, there is justice and there is fair play. That for me is the expectation of our people. If you look at all our leaders, they are saying the same thing. The Afenifere Leader, Chief Ayo Adebanjo was quoted to have said a few days ago that, ‘our people are not looking for secession, but they are looking for a truly federal republic where there is equity, where there is fair play and where there is justice; where everybody has the potential to achieve their aspirations.’
Legal people have pointed out that the constitution is the problem, and so what moderates are saying is that it should be possible to modify or come up with the people’s constitution. It is what I can call the fundamental. However, one must agree that a number of our people are becoming impatient and that is the expression you find in some other people, who feel that it is not going to happen the way they expect it to happen. Then, ‘to your tent O Israel.’ I do feel that all those people who feel that way, if they are properly engaged by all the people who are supposed to do what they need to do, they will be very happy. What everybody is saying is that, ‘we do not want a nation where we will be second class citizens.’ They want a state where they have equal opportunities; where we are treated as human beings. That for me is what everybody appears to be talking about.
About 40 years since the creation of Ogun State, a Yewa person has not been governor. You tried to get someone from the area to succeed you, but it didn’t work. Your successor also tried to do same thing, but he also did not succeed. Why didn’t you support his choice?
Just as we talked about fair and equitable country, what I have always told my brothers and friends from Ogun West is that they require more than the sloganeering of , ‘it’s our turn’. That is just one factor. There are so many factors that make somebody a governor in a heterogenic state like Ogun, where you can say it is four different states in one. I don’t have any doubt that we will get there, but the circumstances of the last election, it is the people that come to you and ask for support that you support. Regrettably, the person who was selected by my successor, he’s a good man, but maybe out of his fear for his boss, he didn’t give him the opportunity to reach out. Maybe, if had done that, the story might have been different. If I were in his position, I would have told my boss to allow me reach out. Sooner or later it will happen.
What are your fears about the level of insecurity in this country, especially as regards 2023 elections?
The level of insecurity in our country has reached an unacceptable level. The kind of casualties we see on daily basis is no different from being in a war. I don’t know how many rockets Hamas fired against Israel and vice versa in two weeks, which is a serious war. When you have a situation like this, it is not a time for responsible people to begin to shout party slogans. When a country is in a state of insecurity that we have now, our responsibility is to join hands to find a solution and not to begin party sloganeering. I said to you earlier on, the members of these two political parties are interchangeable. What we do have as responsibility is to find a way and means of helping out. We must not assume that everybody has all the ideas. You must give it to the government: the way they have gone about to actually look for people to join the party can only mean they can do with other ideas. If they have opened their doors, it can also mean that they are saying they could do with some help. What people should do is to come with constructive criticism.
Are you comfortable with the Asaba resolution by the Southern governors?
On the Asaba declaration by the Southern governors, the governors are our elected representatives and I stand with their resolutions. They are in a better position to see some of those things we ordinary citizens may not see. What we actually owe to our leaders is to a large extent stand with them when they take positions. If you look at it carefully, some people say, if they didn’t call a meeting of Southern governors, but had called a meeting of Nigerian governors, there will be a number of people from the North who would stand by that resolution. It just happened that they were the ones who spearheaded it. I’m sure Benue governor and some others would be with them. We must be realistic and put on our thinking caps. It is natural that a large number of people may feel in a particular way, but we can’t afford to behave like the Roman mob, who first acts before thinking. We need to put on our thinking caps and provide responsible leadership.
What is your view on the zoning of the presidency in 2023?
When this zoning started many years ago, as young activists, a number of us thought that it was a lazy concept; that was in those days of 1979. Those us in the university didn’t think it was the right thing to do. However, we have since found out that Nigeria is a unique environment and that whatever we want to do we must also and always look at the uniqueness of our country. It is to that extent that I personally believe that because of the diverse nature of our country, zoning is something that if possible should even be enshrined in the constitution. Some people argue that zoning brings laziness, but as long as we want to continue to operate Nigeria the way it is, we should give credence to the concept of zoning. I’m not so sure of what are in the constitutions of both parties now, APC and PDP, but I do know that zoning has become part of the moving spirit of our political environment. People say that many of the English laws are not even written. If it is written or not, the law of equity and fair is fair should be applied for us to continue to run this country. Zoning should be encouraged.
What should we do about the 1999 Constitution, which many people have said should be altered or even thrown away?
The country is governed by law and order. And until that constitution is amended, it remains the grand norm. The president said the constitution is fair. There is fair, there is good and there is excellent. Probably, he used those words deliberately because there is no constitution in the world that is ideal; most constitutions are subjected to all manners of amendments. As a person, the president may have his own personal preferences and as a human being, he probably has a right to that, but the people whose responsibility it is to take a look at that constitution are people we have elected into the National Assembly. What we need to do, especially members of the fourth estate of the realm, is to challenge those elected lawmakers to do the needful and when they have done their own bit to an extent, where it is waiting for an executive assent, then we will now know what the correct position of the president is. Don’t also forget that even if the president fails to assent, the law says after 30 days they can still come round and enforce it if they can get figures. There is no doubt that it is a tall order, yet it is possible. What we need to do is to further engage our lawmakers to do what is needful.