Chief Ayo Adebanjo, lawyer, elder statesman and activist could be described as one who has seen it all. A nonagenarian chieftain of Afenifere, the Yoruba socio- cultural group, a close associate of the late premier of the old western region, Chief Obafemi Awolowo, whose political ideology, legacy and policy, he still very much believe in. In this interview with GOKE AWOYEMI and VINCENT KALU, he speaks on the constitutional crisis in Nigeria, the imbalance in the polity leading to agitation for a break-up, and the RUGA controversy, coupled with kidnapping and banditry with the attendant bloodletting. According to him, “I have no objection to breaking up. People are talking of breaking up because the term of coming together has been abrogated by the northern Muslims who are dominating us. This is why the young elements, extremists in the South- East, South – South, South –West and the Middle Belt are yearning for break-up just because of their refusal to yield to our demand of peaceful co-existence.”
As a pre and post colonial activist, will you say that the yearnings and aspirations of our founding fathers have been met as Nigeria prepares to celebrate 59 years of independence in a couple of weeks?
Particularly, those of us who took part, it is a big disappointment. We only pray that God will give us strength to change sooner than later.
The rate of kidnapping and bloodletting is becoming intractable in Nigeria. Where do we go from here?
It has to be because the authority is pretending not know what is to be done, and that is one of the problems in Nigeria today. We have been talking of the country to be restructured, and until we go back to it we will never have peace, because our founding fathers handed over to us a constitution in which all the states then were regions. The constitutions of these regions were written separately. After the coup of 1966, the military dominated by the Northern Muslims changed the constitution. Aguiyi Ironsi did his own in January, the counter coup by General Yakubu Gowon in July continued. Our own contention in Afenifere, even in NADECO is that this constitution is not the constitution handed over to us by our founding fathers, and I want anybody to challenge that. When Chief Enahoro moved a motion in 1953, the colonial secretary Lords Chandos summoned all the political leaders in the country including Chief Obafemi Awolowo and the Sardauna to London, it was at that conference that the Unitary constitution of Macpherson was changed to a federal one. People, who can read into history, will realize that Macpherson constitution did not make provision for premiership, as the leader of government of that time. But when the battle of federalism was fought at the London constitution conference, premiership was inserted in 1954, and each region had its own premier, and the regions were autonomous, to the extent that each region has the constitutional right to establish its own foreign embassy, which Chief Obafemi Awolowo used at that time to establish the Western Nigeria office in London. Chief M. A. R. Okorodudu was the First Agent- General of the Western region under that constitution. When Chief Obafemi Awolowo made that innovation, other regions which did not understand the meaning of federalism were mocking him, but they followed later. Even the question of resource control that is so violently contested today was resolved at that time. Under the federal system, Western region had cocoa, Northern region had groundnut, Eastern region had palm kernel. It was on this basis that they were sharing the revenue on derivation basis, 50% to the region that was producing the product, while the rest is being shared by the federal government. So in a nutshell, if I may also add, before that London Constitutional conference of 1953 that gave birth to the 1954 constitution, Dr. Azikiwe, the leader of NCNC was a unitarist, but came back as a federalist from London. I can refer you to the Daily Times of late 1953 or 1954 on the return of Dr. Azikiwe where he declared federalism as the best form of government at Ikeja airport. Then the competition started, Awolowo built Liberty Stadium, Sadauna built Ahmadu Bello Stadium. The issue of minimum wage cropped up, it was Chief Obafemi Awolowo that started minimum wage in this country as an autonomous region under the federation. We promised five shillings minimum wage in the western region, Dr. Azikiwe in order to out beat the west promised seven shillings and six pence which he could not pay. Let every region pay its staff according to its ability. These are all advantages of federal system. This is why I said until you go back to the basic, when your foundation is wrong, anything you build on it will collapse. So long as the whole thing will result to no federalism as given to us by our founding fathers, no peace in this country.
It was envisaged that the recent Abdulsalami Abubakar peace committee would have tapped from your experience at the parley in Minna, but you refused to attend. How do you feel about that?
No, no, no, we gave them reason why we did not attend. Abdulsalami succumbed to the dictation of the federal government, equating Afenifere with Miyetti Allah, the cattle rearers who are committing havoc, burning, raping and doing everything which ought to have seen them banned and be so declared as a terrorist organisation. We were going to attend when invited but when he said we were equal to people who are terrorists in their operations, then we declined and said no.
You reportedly accused the South West governors during the funeral of Pa Fasoranti’s daughter (late Mrs Funke Olakunrin) that they have failed to protect their people. Are you satisfied with the security they are putting in place now?
What security measure are they putting in place now? Any security measure that does not give the governor autonomy to enable them have control over their police, DSS, etc does not mean anything, it is patch patch, and it will get them to nowhere. I am not mincing words on that. You want to tell me if Akeredolu was in charge of security, they would have killed that woman? Our problem, unfortunately, in this country is that we live in denial. Let the various components in this country agree to live together, if we want to live together on what term? It was unity of the horse and the rider, where northern Muslims are the rider and we are the horse, as long as the system exists and continues, I have said it, there will be no peace in this country.
The younger generation sees the words employed by elder statesmen like restructuring, re-arranging and repackaging as mere rhetoric. What is actually wrong with breaking up, bearing in mind that countries have broken up before without shedding blood?
I have no objection to breaking up. But I am one of the advocates who fought for this country as a united country. People are talking of breaking up because the term of coming together has been abrogated by the northern Muslims who are dominating us. This is why the young elements, extremists in the South-East, South–South, South–West and the Middle Belt are yearning for break-up just because of their refusal to yield to our demand of peaceful co-existence on condition, they are not yielding as Buhari is doing. We appreciate living under amalgamation. Amalgamation brought us together, not on any condition, and if amalgamation is not working, because there was no agreement, let everybody go its way. But we appreciate the economy of staying together, it used to be a good country, but not a big and good country where a section will be dominating the other. It is that domination by a section of the country that is making the younger elements to say no, let everybody go its own way.
So, they are right. It is the stubbornness of people like Buhari in doing what is acceptable, because we want to live together, nobody wants to disunite the country. The constitution we are asking for was agreed to by our founding fathers that got us independence. And they put a poser. Is Buhari claiming to be more intelligent, more Northerner than Sardauna who agreed to this? If he is honest and sincere about keeping this country together in peace, why is he opposed to getting us an agreed constitution, not the one imposed.
What memories of Chief Obafemi Awolowo will you want to share with us?
He was the father of federalism. He was the father of peaceful co-existence in Nigeria. That is the founding memory. Whatever peaceful administration, federalism based, whatever all the inequities this unitary form has brought us, that he was opposed to, that is his legacy. We have abandoned the system which he fought for because federalism does not allow a section to dominate the other.
All is not well with Nigeria, how can we halt the country from this dangerous slide?
Until we change the constitution of this country to real federal system that is acceptable to all the units of the federation, we are not going anywhere; any other thing is a waste of time and efforts, and cannot take us anywhere. When you have a constitution that confers on you powers to appoint heads of MDAs and security chiefs from just one section of the country, and you say it is a federation; is that federalism; with lopsided appointments, taking the resources of one section to develop the other section, and the security architecture of the country concentrated in a section of the county. If there is any change we need, it is the change of the constitution that is acceptable to all the federating units of the federation, and not a constitution that was imposed on us by a section of the country.
Some people are saying the vice president seems to be falling out of favour with the president as some of the duties assigned to him are gradually being withdrawn, what is your view on this?
I have refused to comment on this.
Why?
It is just what I have said earlier. They are the people who aided and abetted the implementation of the wrong constitution because they give them the crumbs of the power. It is this constitution that empowers the president to make the vice president a market master. Whatever you are doing, the bottom line is the constitution.
If it is not this constitution, would the president be doing all that; is it not the constitution that gives him all the powers; a constitution that makes him the most powerful head of state in the whole world. I have said it several times and I’m repeating it, we said it should be changed, but you say, no. This is not the constitution the founding fathers of the nation gave us. I say it again, the constitution that Azikiwe, Awolowo and Ahmadu Bello gave us is what we want to return to, and I have challenged him whether he is more intelligent than Sardauna, but he has not answered. Is he telling us that the constitution that Sardauna gave us is a wrong constitution, Sardauna was not as intelligent as he is now; or he is a more northerner than former premier or a more Muslim than the late premier? It was the constitution that they all agreed to live in peace and that was after a crisis in the country, leading the colonial office to draw all the leaders to London.
This vice president issue, does it have any bearing on 2023 succession plan?
I still maintain that the constitution is the bottom line of our problems. As long as this constitution is there, he would be doing anything that pleases him and we all will be shouting. If you are doing all these things because the constitution gives the power then let’s break the constitution and end everything.
All the armed robbery, kidnapping and everything, the moment you have a constitution where the governors have full control of their security, it will end the Fulani policemen you put in all the places here who cannot arrest Fulani herdsmen that are committing the atrocities here. When you do restructuring, with state police the indigenes would be the personnel of the police, and the moment a Fulani herdsman commits a crime, he would be arrested. How can you post a Fulani policeman in Ibadan, what does he know about the terrains and how can he arrest the Fulani that committed a crime, and yet you say we are one Nigeria. You see a Sokoto man, you ask him to go to Abeokuta, what does he know about the area? Every problem runs around the obnoxious constitution imposed on us. Why are you reluctant to change; Southeast, Southwest, South-South and Middle Belt say they want a change of the constitution, but you say, no.
Recently, Professor Adebanji Akintoye, was elected Yoruba leader in Ibadan, but you and Pa Fasoranti are the known Yoruba leaders, where does this latest development take the race to?
We are not going to elevate that position by going into any controversy.
You are a media man, what has happened after his election? They just want to use him as a diversion from the issue, and we are not going to encourage them to distract our attention. They just want to use him to destroy Afenifere, and we are not going to allow them to do that. The Yoruba know their leaders
Is it part of the plot to divide the Yoruba ahead of 2023 presidential election?
You draw your conclusion; I have told you that he is not part of us. Yoruba know their leaders. Is this the first attempt of trying to divide the Yoruba? When Jagaban went to form political alliance, was restructuring not the basis by which Jagaban and others were elected into office, but now they say they don’t know about it.
Have I not said that, the vice president’s father and myself were followers of Awolowo on restructuring and federalism, has he said no, or I was telling lies? I’m telling you something, in which you were born in to, but he laughs at it; we said that, you didn’t answer, you didn’t challenge us that we are telling you a lie.
If anybody is serious about restructuring of the country he knows what to be done, until we do it, we will continue to be in trouble.
Some express the fears that restructuring may breakup the country
I don’t think any normal person will be reasoning in this line. Did the constitution our founding fathers give at independence breakup the country? Are they saying that the constitution broke up the country? I don’t know why some people are mischievous. If stupid people are talking, intelligent people shouldn’t re-echo what they are saying.