By Olakunle Olafioye

Lack of identifiable leading figures in the mould of the late sage, Chief Obafemi Awolowo, Nnamdi Azikiwe, the late Sardauna of Sokoto, Sir Ahmadu Bello among others is one of the factors that have been identified as being responsible for the seeming rudderless state of various ethnic nationalities in the country as accentuated by the failure of the elders to rein in their youths at critical points in recent months.  In this interview,  presidential candidate of National Action Council, NAC, in 2011 elections Olapade Agoro speaks on this.  He also speaks on other burning national issues including the raging debate on restructuring.

You will be 74 on October 9. It can be effectively said that you were almost 17 years older than Nigeria on October 1, 1960 when the nation got her independence. As somebody who was already adjudged to be an adult at the time, how did you receive the news of the independence and what can you say has become of those expectations you nursed for the new Nigeria?

The news of Nigeria’s independence had been in the offing almost two to three months before the time. The presentation of independence idea to us was so rosy. It was a presentation of an Eldorado, a state of freedom, a state of almost everything one would have wanted on earth. One was just getting out of the secondary school, looking forward to a beautiful future and no longer dependent on the British masters. The expectation was for good. Before then, the Western Region where I was growing, with the late sage, Chief Obafemi  Awolowo as the Premier  was already a country on its own. We had free health, free education and everything one wanted was already emerging. So when we heard that Nigeria was going to become an independent nation, we were looking for something bettter than we had. Dr. Nnamdi Azikiwe was making waves in the East, Ahmadu Bello, Sardauna of Sokoto was making waves in the North. It was a period of political manifestation of great things to come. But then, two years after independence, the nation collapsed totally. The infightings, political assassinations culminating in the arrest and confinement of Awolowo in the gulag became ominous signals that we were in trouble. To be honest with ourselves, we started witnessing the failure of the dreams of the founding fathers two years after Nigeria’s independence. And that started emerging like jokes till we had the first coup. Since then things never went well again. Then Gowon, that flamboyant man came with the claim that money wasn’t our problem but how to spend it. Then the military took over and began doing what not ought to be done, leaving what ought to be done. The atmosphere was getting charged until General Gowon was overthrown and things began to go haywire.

You said Nigeria collapsed two years after independence. Does it mean that the leaders who took over from the British colonialists then were not prepared for independence or was it that they were overwhelmed by the burden of leading the new nation?  

Some of the leaders didn’t know what becoming an independent nation was. They probably got wrong message about independence. Those who gave us the independence didn’t get us prepared dynamically. They didn’t get us prepared economically; they didn’t get us prepared mentally. We were schooled against ourselves. The thinking of some of our leaders was about domination, they were not thinking about progressive ideas but were only thinking about how to dominate politically that was the problem. By the time we realised our problem the leaders were already at dagger drawn. They were ready to kill themselves and that marked the beginning of our troubles.

Those of us that were born after independence have had the story of the good old days over and over again. Isn’t it disturbing to realise that the degeneration the country has witnessed over the years is still being supervised by the same set of people who had a taste of the goodness of the old good era?

It is not only in Nigeria that we have this kind of situation; it’s all over Africa. The black man’s mentality, some are animalistic. African man’s mentality as far as power is concerned is not about how to govern well but how to rule and lord it over. We saw the wealth but we didn’t know how to use it. Awolowo was highly educated, he was brilliant, he was mentally ready for the independence of Nigeria but then others interpreted Nigeria’s independence as avenue for political dominance. They didn’t learn to prepare the ground for generation unborn. They prepared the ground well for themselves on how to dominate and how to steal. There was no proper preparation for Nigeria’s future. So our people were introduced to a wrong idea about political independence. They made us to realise that once you are a minister, you are a multi-millionaire; they made us to realise that our education was inferior and that was the time our politicians started sending their children to study abroad. They believe in class structure. They would either send their children to Kings’ College or to Queens’ College or would send them to schools abroad. So the structural foundation of our political life was wrongly laid. Nigerians were erroneously indoctrinated with the belief that once you are a politician you are born to rule. Our leaders, when I say our leaders I mean the foundation fathers of our independence laid wrong structure for our political life.

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Isn’t then justifiable to say that the call for breakup which is being spearheaded largely by the younger generation is a direct response to the inability of the old generation leaders to lay proper foundation for the nation and fix the challenges confronting us now?        

Like I was saying, an average Nigerian leader doesn’t understand what governance means. This silly idea of breakup started with Jonathan’s national confab. All of them that went to the confab were handpicked and they were stuffed with money so the money started oozing out of their mouth. It was meant to gain soft landing for Jonathan’s third term idea. He finished Yar’Adua’s tenure, he won one and there was no way he could have got another term. That would have been an aberration. So Jonathan prepared the ground for his third term election. And then corruption was so ripe. There is nobody who attended that conference that did not end up being a multi-billionaire. So what followed his failed third agenda is the silly idea of restructuring. What is there to restructure? The only thing we need to restructure is our mind. We must first of all restructure our reasoning and thinking. It is not the breakdown of the nation and to give room to bloodshed. If you have been following the argument of the proponents of restructuring none of them has been able to articulate what they mean by restructuring. Some define it to mean breaking the country into six. Some define it to mean going back to regionalism. What Nigeria needs now is truism of the fundamental principles of self-governance. You cannot break Nigeria down when the economy is bad. You cannot break Nigeria down when we are at dagger drawn with ourselves. You cannot break Nigeria down when we have problem of insurgence; you cannot break Nigeria down when our schools are in shambles. What we need is true federalism. We want each part of the country to develop at its own pace. So those calling for restructuring are not calling for the progress of the country; rather they are only interested in throwing Nigeria back to the dark age of self annihilation.    

In the past each of the major ethnic nationalities had identifiable leaders like Chief Obafemi Awolowo, Ahmadu Bello, Nnamdi Azikiwe to look up to as leaders. Why are there no longer identifiable figures in the mould of these people in Nigeria?

Sardauna of Sokoto, Sir Ahmadu Bello was only interested in the affairs of his people. He was not interested in having palaces and building castles all over. Awolowo was interested in the affair of his people, how many houses did he have? Azikwe had only one house in Ikeja. The kind of leaders we had then were not for themselves. They were for the people. They had dreams like the one Nelson Mandela had for South Africa. They had dreams like Martin Luther King. They saw the dream just like Mahatma Ghandi of India but unfortunate after the military took over things collapsed totally. The way we reason, the way we think went to the doldrums. Everybody wanted to become multi-millionaire overnight. The signs started emerging during Gowon’s era when he said money wasn’t our problem but how to spend it. Then the military boys and their civilian collaborators then went money spree. So the problem with Nigeria, socio-economically and politically started immediately after Gowon era. That was why Muritala came to truncate his regime. But unfortunately he was not allowed to live long and show us the direction before he was killed. So the leaders we have been having immediately after the first republic have been leaders to themselves, they are leaders that have been cornering the commonwealth of the nation for their own benefit. So Nigeria is yet to have the kind of leaders we had in Azikiwe, the kind of leader we had in Ahmadu Bello, the kind of leader we had in Tafawa Balewa and the kind of leader we had in Obafemi Awolowo. And I doubt if we will ever have them in this generation unless we just see one that can come from nowhere and  give us direction. We lack direction now.       

What do you think a situation where these major ethnic nationalities do not have identifiable leaders in the mould of these great leaders portend for the nation?

What we see is that our leader ate the grapes and now we have toothache. We are in trouble. The oil money was a curse to Nigeria; it should have been a blessing. Look at Indonesia, look at Singapore, look at Brazil, they all emerged from doldrums to become great countries. It is taking us back. No national conference will give us leaders. We are yet to have leaders that will lead us out of the situation we find ourselves. I wish we can have a way to pack all the so called leaders and throw them into the sea. The next government in Nigeria should not have a minister that is above 50 years old. Should I become president of Nigeria, my ministers will range between 35 and 50. The youths have been denied opportunities. So we want to give these youth the opportunity to lead. The youths should be allowed to emerge. The youth we are talking about must not have godfathers; they must not come from any of the known names. My programmes would be youth for power. Let us give them the opportunity to express themselves.

I am really surprised that you are advocating that the youth should be given the opportunity to lead because you contested in 2011 when you were relatively above 65 years…

That is what I am saying. I am still a leader that will encourage the youth by giving them opportunity. You can’t tell me the next president of Nigeria should be under 50. No the nation will be run aground. What we need is a leader that will show the youth the direction, we need a leader that will sit with them and hand over to them. I don’t know why somebody who had been in power before will still want to come back, I don’t know why somebody who had been a minister before will still want to come back to power; it is wrong. What I am saying is that should I be in the position I would like to open the door to the youths. Each of the ministries should be headed by men and women who are not above 50 years. By this, we will be preparing the ground for the youths. I am waiting for a day in my lifetime when very soon a young man or woman will become the President of Nigeria. I don’t want to know where the person will come from.