Pastor Osagie Ize-Iyamu was the gubernatorial candidate of the All Progressives Congress (APC) in the 2020 governorship election in Edo State. He lost to Governor Godwin Obaseki. In this interview to mark his 60th birthday, the Pastor of the Redeemed Christian Church of God (RCCG), said Jesus is his role model. On his political future, he said he is looking unto God for the Edo State 2024 governorship election after the tenure of Governor Godwin Obaseki.
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How has the journey been? 60 years is a milestone. We are happy you have good health, you are happily married and you are successful. Tell us how far it has been?
Well, to be honest, I am still in shock that I am 60. I remember vividly at my teenage and youthful age, back then, when you hear somebody is 60, you look at the person with so much respect; because we believe 60 is really down the ladder.
I want to thank God for life and good health. Apart from when I had a road accident and had to do appendicitis, God has always blessed me with good health. I have never really been sick or hospitalized but I see a lot of people spending monies on doctors and medications but God has been so good to me.
Being 60 in good health, not in want and your children are doing well, it’s something to give God the glory. I cannot thank God enough for keeping me thus far.
I thank God for allowing me to know Him. I think that is my major achievement; that I will really point to; that I know God. If I have lived a 100 years without really knowing God, but what I know now and what will come after, I would have been feeling regrets. But the period when I did a complete U-turn, I gave my life to Christ, I am very satisfied with my relationship with God. Every day, I pray it gets better.
Would you say you regret your chosen career? First of all, you are a lawyer and later, a politician. Are there regrets along these lines of careers?
Of course there are regrets. Sometimes, I regret I didn’t spend too much time in my legal practice. I entered politics very early in life and somehow, I just got to the thick of it. There was no room for anything else. Even to do business became very difficult.
Most of the time from one political meeting to the other.
Then, my involvement in politics, it’s because I am so concerned about the environment I live in and I have always told people that you cannot be rich when all around you is poverty. So your wealth is defined by the environment you live in. When I see poverty in my place, I am challenged. I just believe that with the right leadership, right policies and sincerity in governance, things could be a lot better.
It’s been a long journey that one would think that by now we have the Nigeria of our dreams but unfortunately, it is still a work in progress.
Sometimes, I feel I should have spent more time in the legal profession. It’s actually a profession I have a lot of respect for; recently when I have to go to court for some cases and I see my colleagues, how well they have gotten at the bar and their submission in court, there is a little bit of envy that I should have spent some time. But quite honestly, I am very fulfilled. I have a wonderful family, my wife is everything to me, my children are very supportive, my siblings are wonderful and I have had some very good friends, even though I had a fair share of backstabbing and betrayals. Of course, the body of Christ has also been one of the very strong pillars in my life. So the regrets are minimal, more of gratitude and thanks to God.
Would you say you have been able to touch lives with your involvement in politics?
Definitely! I am happy that I have helped a lot of people achieve their dreams. I have helped people to become governors, National Assembly members, House of Assembly members and so many positions. It’s fulfilling when you help somebody to achieve his dreams. Some are very grateful and they announce it everywhere but some other ones, when you help them, they take a walk. But it doesn’t really matter. What is important is that you needed to help and you gave that help.
We have also tried to use influence in government to attract assistance and amenities to a lot of places. When I was in government, for example, we were able to push for employment in the civil service and today, most of the top people in the Edo state civil service are people we employed in our time; various professionals; whether as doctors, lawyers, engineers, they were people that were employed as young graduates and today, they are directors and permanent secretaries.
So, it’s also very satisfying when you see the young people you help then, now they are solid and also fulfilled in their various endeavors. It’s quite good. We try to do the best we can and I thank God for the opportunity.
When you were in Lucky Igbinedion’s government, did you give some advice to help the government focus? Will you say there are recommendations you made to the government and the government didn’t take? What exactly will you say were the impacts you made in the government?
Well that government was a very challenging one. That is the government that came in 1999 after eight years of military rule. The last civilian governor was Chief John Oyegun who left in 1992. Then they came in and by the time that government came in, the civil service was in bad shape, the only university, Ambrose Alli University was nothing to write home about.
Basically, most of the military Administrators were not from here and they were coming from places even worse than Edo State. For them, there was no need to do anything fantastic here. They felt that Edo was better than where they came from. So, they did very minimally. When the government came in, there were lots of challenges. We had people protesting over their salaries and pensions close to 28 months, 29 months, 30 months, people have been unpaid. So there were a lot of agitations. It took a lot of time to balance it.
Then the IGR was very poor. It will surprise you to know that then the IGR for a month was 30 million. But today, to the glory of God, I think it’s over two billion. So you can see the difference. Things were a bit tight but no matter how tight, you don’t enter government to lament; you go there to make improvements and we tried to do that. My first function for four years as Chief of Staff, was basically trying to help the governor to stabilize. A lot of time then, I had to interface with the legislative and executive arms to ensure they have harmony and worked together; which they did. There wasn’t any rancor during that period because I had a very good working relationship with the House of Assembly by ensuring whatever the governor was doing, they were fully abreast of it. There was mutual respect on both sides. Budgets were passed on time because legislators had input from various constituencies. So it was a win-win situation.
We also tried to interface with the unions. Regularly, I was liaising with the NLC. Of course with also the Head of Service, we all worked together to ensure we minimized labour agitations. Then of course, the political class, we had to talk with them because if the governor had to be dealing with them every day, he would not have been able to govern. So the issues of who gets appointments and who gets this, I have to look at it and brief the governor, work out something and all that. But in the second term, I became Secretary to the Government. This time, I became more involved in the governance of the state. Looking at how resources are to be spent, looking at what various ministries are doing, we tried to do so much. But I think one of the actions that brought a lot of sadness then was the retrenchment that was done. It was done out of desperation. The governor felt he wasn’t able to perform because most of the monies that were coming in were being used to service the civil service who were less than 1% of the total population. But in taking them off, we were creating more problems because they were breadwinners and they were a critical minority. So when you remove such people, you can imagine the backlash in terms of criticism and the rest of them. But it took a while before we could make people understand that it was not done in bad faith but just because we wanted to have a manageable workforce while we improve the revenue.
Government is quite challenging. It’s not easy. I have come to realize that when you are an appointee there is a limit to what you can do. No matter what people perceived, you are not the governor. People will say, Pastor was very powerful as chief of staff. Again, you ask yourself Chief of staff, what role, what did he do. I never approved a contract, I never gave out a contract even as SSG, there was nothing like that.
So the power you are talking about may be in terms of visibility but when you are talking about power being able to award contracts, being able to do this and that, no. When you recommend appointments, it’s also at the discretion of the governor. The bulk of this job is at the governor’s table. That is why I left office, I just said that based on the experience I have had let me try to become chief executive, so that I can deploy that knowledge and experience to make things work better but that is something I have not been able to achieve. I just pray that whoever is the governor has the requisite knowledge and experience to be able to do the right things at the right time.
Can you share your experience with us when you made the first attempt to contest under PDP and your second attempt to contest with APC?
They were both different. Even though there are also very glaring similarities. For example, when I went to the PDP, I was going there like the Prodigal son but you will recall we also founded the PDP in 1999 but at the tail end, we had some issues that led to the formation of the Grace Group.
The Grace Group was actually the foundation of the Action Congress that became ACN which today is the APC. We helped Comrade Adams Oshiomole to become the first Governor from Edo North extraction. But we had some misgivings at the tail end of his administration that led many of us to leave the party and we went back to PDP.
Of course, many people envisaged we were going to have hostile reception because before we formed the Grace Group, the PDP was totally in control of the politics of our state. Just as PDP was holding sway in Delta, that was how PDP was holding sway in Edo. But somehow God just gave me favor. Those people they thought will be very hostile to me; especially our late Father and Leader, Chief Anthony Anenih, people thought with our slogan ‘NO MAN IS GOD’, he will use the opportunity of our coming back to practically humiliate me. But to the glory of God, he gave me the support. I became the gubernatorial candidate. We had a very good show then. You will recall if not because the INEC compromised by shifting the election on the eve of it, the story would have been different. In all the security reports, everything was clear that if the election had been done, Pastor Ize Iyamu was going to win. So there we were, we have sent people to the field and was just getting set to go to my village when I heard on TV. Nobody informed me, I just heard on TV that the election had been postponed for the next few weeks. The reason was that the security people could not guarantee security in the state that was relatively peaceful. So that was a terrible experience. But by the time they finally rescheduled it again, of course the government in power dotted their Ts and they have prepared themselves very well to ensure we were not able to win the election. We went to court and the moment the supreme court gave their verdict, right there at the supreme court, I sent a message of congratulations to Governor Obaseki to appreciate him.
The second one, coming back was something miraculous. Again, we had some issues in PDP and because of those issues, most of those who came with me agitated we should go back. Quite honestly, in the politics I played, I try as much as possible to listen to what my people say. I don’t think it’s right just leading people without taking into consideration their mindset and feelings. When I realized that our people were feeling oppressed, or they are not happy where they are and everything I have done to rectify and remedy the situation is not working, I have no choice but to follow them. But quite honestly, when we were coming to the APC, the real priority was not that I must contest. When I went to PDP, I had the mindset that I will have to run for governor but when I went to APC, to be honest, I tried to be very realistic as far as I can. To me, they have a sitting governor. I didn’t think the problem they had was insurmountable. I thought that somehow, they will be able to rectify it; maybe at the national level, maybe at the state level before the elections and if they rectify it, of course the way it normally goes, everybody will support the governor. That was at the back of my mind. I also have the idea if they push it too far some members there could get it. So I went to the APC with that mindset and I tried to reach out to everybody including Comrade Oshiomole who was then the national chairman whom I had a very storming session before I left but of course, you know what played out during the campaigns. It was as if it was two of us that were campaigning. But I reached out to him. I called the governor. I briefed him. At the beginning on phone, he was quite receptive but later he must have had a second thought of my coming in. So it was no longer possible for me to communicate with him. But to my shock, the day I was to do the declaration, it became as if it was a war. Where we wanted to do it at Garrick Memorial school Benin, the government warned the owners there not to allow us to use the place. In fact, the night before, there were attempts to burn the place. They threatened the owner that they will revoke the ownership of the land if they allow us use the place. I saw reasons with them, I said ok. We are not going to put you through that kind of trouble. Luckily, I have a big space in my house, so people can use my house. I asked the party, please do you mind if you receive me in my house? They said no. We will come and receive you even if it’s in your bedroom. We were here again, all kinds of troubles. In fact I heard they were also planning to come and attack my house. I said, how can they attack my house? Because I am joining the party? Anybody can join the party. I don’t think it will get to that. Somebody also called me that they might revoke my ownership of the land. I said that will be going too far. But if that happens, it will also be making history even though it will be on the negative side. But it was very terrible. But all the troubles that played out before I knew it, I became a major contender for the ticket. We lost that election because there was so much division in the party that it was difficult, to be honest, to know who was who. I think the governor was quite smart. When he was leaving, he left some people behind and took some to join the PDP. He left some people behind to give him reports of what is happening and at the same time support him during the election.
In any election, the thing you dread the most is internal sabotage, when people you think will be guiding your goal post are actually the ones kicking the balls in. It is difficult to deal with and because of the fact that I have just returned back into the party, I didn’t want the impression to be given that I didn’t trust those that were to be used. I also could not change them because that would have sent a negative impression that if I don’t want to use these people now, it means when I am in government, I won’t use them. I have no choice but to accept and when the result came in, it was a big problem. But of course, at the national level there were also issues. Comrade governor and leader of the party also had his issues with people at the national level who also felt that the election should not go our way even though we were in the same party. So we had problems locally and nationally from Abuja. Again even the kind of support we would have taken for granted you find out that the support was on the other side. So it was very difficult. And again those things happened. I have always told people that if your intention in seeking office is to serve, you shouldn’t just be desperate. That is why no matter what has happened, nothing has changed, the moment elections are over. Sometimes people see me outside, walk up to the governor Obaseki to go and greet him and they say, you greeted him?
Have you seen Governor Obaseki after the elections?
Yes! I have seen him.
What was his disposition towards you?
We greeted. The only time I thought they must have been going too far was when my farmland was revoked. I felt that was not necessary. So many pressmen have come to me to ask questions about the government, but deliberately, I just refrain from doing so – not because I don’t really have things to talk about, I just felt that, whatever I say, the coloration will be that I am a biased commentator because I contested with him. There is no way I will be able to tell anybody that I am being objective. I just felt there are so many other people who can make comments and people can look at them on their merits. My comments will be seen as biased. I kept quiet. I have never criticized the government. I just try to go on with my life.
Actually, the period has given me an opportunity to refocus myself on the work of God. You know I am a pastor in Redeem. I have more time to preach, more time to talk to people in my parish and found it more fulfilling. So that one happened but we were able to at least get over it. Every time we see, especially at the airport or inside the plane, you know inside the plane, the protocol is less, so inside the plane you can greet anybody and the person will greet you. So inside the plane, I will say Mr. Governor, and he will say Hi Pastor. We greet.
What is your disposition to some other governors, national officers who didn’t support you?
There are certain things you must put behind you. I believe very strongly you don’t cry over spilled milk. Something has happened, it has happened. Somebody didn’t assist me today does not mean he won’t assist me tomorrow. So bearing grudges, being hostile will not help. It even complicates matters. So for me, once it was over, I reached out to as many as possible and I made them realize that I have put it behind and quite honestly, two or three of them told me in person, that Pastor, we are sorry about what happened to you. You were the victim but you were not the target. I said no problems. The future is pregnant. Tomorrow is there.
Where do you get the capacity and courage to carry on? Is it because you are a Christian or what?
That’s number one. When you have God on your side, you find out that you don’t worry too much about anything. I can understand why people easily get depressed. But when you have God beside you, you just find out that whatever happens, you just take it as the will of God. He said, “ In everything give thanks”. In fact after the elections, I did a thanksgiving, some people said how can you be doing thanksgiving? You didn’t win the election. I said we shouldn’t do Thanksgiving; that I went through all these and I didn’t die? We traveled day and night all over the place nobody died. As I was going here, my wife will be going there. In fact in one or two places, she was attacked but for the glory of God. God kept us. So, forget about what happened. I should thank God. Twice I have done elections, over two hundred thousand people every time have voted for me. There are many states their governor won’t get that kind of numbers.
Cut in: In the first election how many votes did you get?
A Two hundred and something thousand, The second, two hundred and something thousand. Consistently, over a quarter of a million in the state have said, we like you, we will support you. So if I am depressed, what example am I showing to them. Then wonderful family. My wife is a wonderful woman. The period I was campaigning, she was all over the place. She forgot all other things and focused on helping me. The moment the thing went she was also by my side. She said, Darling, we have to move on. She didn’t behave like Job’s wife who said curse God and die. She just said this one is done let’s move on.
As a Christian, people say politics is a dirty game. As a Pastor in a popular Church, how do you describe politics? Do you encourage Christians to go into polities?
I will encourage them. The truth about it is that, in Nigeria, it’s true that politics is very, very dirty. There is no doubt about that, because to lie about it may be to lead them into a world they are not prepared for. It’s a very dirty game. In fact it’s getting worse. The lack of economic opportunities makes so many people go into politics and they see elective office, appointive office as a do-or-die affair. People are ready to take lives to get positions. They can tell all kinds of lies. You and somebody can be very close, but the moment he believes that you are probably to compete with him, he will begin to manipulate lies against you to put you off. All kinds of things. Some can even attempt to kill you. So it’s that bad. But can we run away from it? The answer is NO. Don’t forget the Bible says, God has not given us the spirit of fear. Let’s not just say it’s dirty and we are afraid. I kept telling people that, it’s the dirtiness of the politics in Nigeria that makes it a mission field. If people have said, how can they come to the jungle to come and talk to warriors? Christianity would never have gotten here. People lost their lives, people took risks. In the same way if we say oh there are too many thugs or too many assassins in politics it means perpetually we will be governed by such a people. But the more we come out in large numbers, the more we will be able to eventually overcome them and take control.
So, by the time you get to a place and now you find out that rather than one person out of ten being Christian for the first time you are seeing six people who are Christians to four will make a tremendous impact. So the reason it’s still like this is that, the Christians in the game are too few; very very few. If you are not the strong Christian, you enter into politics, you will backslide because the temptation, the terrain, the atmosphere is very serious.
Pastor, you travel here and there. Move from one political meeting to another but you still find time to preach in the church. How do you cope?
God and the Holy Spirit. When the holy spirit is in you, you just find out that the word of God comes to you. Every time I needed to minister, the moment the topic- Pastor can you talk to us about Holiness? Can you talk to us about righteousness? The moment that topic is mentioned, the Holy Spirit will just fill me with scriptures. My wife is amazed at the very short time I use in preparing messages because when she is going to prepare a message, she takes three to four or five days. She finds out that, I can prepare a message in twenty minutes. It’s a message practically everybody in the church will say Pastor, that message was wonderful. The revelations – I don’t believe in preaching the word without backing it up with scriptures. I just allow the Bible to speak for itself. So just talking and talking, no reference to the scripture, I don’t believe in that. You are going there to speak the word of God. I should not be talking about myself but what God says. Everything one is saying is scripture based and a lot of time, the thing just flows, the thing just comes in. If really I don’t have it and the Holy Spirit was not there, it would have been terrible. I would have woken up some mornings and say look eh, call the assistant pastor or call the minister to say I am sorry because I was so busy I was not able to prepare any message but they know it has never happened.
Some pastors believe in preaching holiness, some repentance, some prosperity etc. Where do you anchor yours?
I am a member of the Redeemed Christian Church. In Redeemed, the major focus is holiness. We believe that we should teach people that holiness is possible and in doing so, you are taking as many people as possible to heaven. The only way we can depopulate the kingdom of darkness is to teach them holiness; teach them the word of God. That is our main focus. That is not to say we cannot talk about other topics. Prosperity, we also need to talk about it, maybe it’s over flogged. There was a time when there was this erroneous teaching that the rich cannot be Christians and that the rich cannot make heaven. So that time, if one was to get a fantastic job, your Christian brethren will tell you to reject it because that job will make you backslide. If you take the job, you will be too busy to serve God and you will be traveling all over the place. But they realize later that it’s such things that also promote the faithfulness of God. Anybody seeing you very well dressed will respect the God that you serve. You are telling people that God is a very big God but the shoes you wear are filled with holes; you are a reproach, you have no job, you have graduated you can barely feed; nobody will take you seriously. At least we also need to make them realize that look you can’t be a Christian and you are not doing well. God said in 3 John 1-2, “I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in good health, even as thy soul prospereth.” So God wants you to prosper. But you know, they term it to mean that God will just turn you into a millionaire. There are so many gimmicks that a lot of charlatans do but far from it.
We try to do what you might call all-round teaching: holiness has a place, righteousness also has a place and prosperity has a place. In Redeem now we also encourage sports. Go and play football. It’s good to keep fit. We have medical outreach, not just about pray, pray, pray. Sometimes get the doctor. A doctor is treating you and also praying for you. But to say forget about the doctors, let me just pray for you, we don’t believe in that. In my parish for example every third Sunday, it’s called medical Sunday. During that Sunday, our team of doctors and medical people…
Cut IN..Is that an idea you brought into the church?
Yes! In my parish but you know our father in the Lord, Pastor E.O Adeboye is very strong on Christian social responsibility. You might call it corporate social responsibility. This is actually my own area as a pastor. Then we see how we can impact the community we live in. The area we are really trying to do much is education, health, community service, then feeding. A lot of people who have no food. You cannot be preaching the gospel to somebody that has not eaten. We try to feed as many people as possible. In fact if you sum up the money Redeem put on food, you will be amazed. It runs into Billions of naira. We don’t advertise what we do. But those of them in our parishes know we spend so much on feeding. But in my particular parish, we introduced a medical Sunday. People come to check their blood pressure and do all kinds of checks.
How do you get monies to fund all these?
All of us fund it. The doctors and nurses, we don’t pay them. They are members of the church. Sometimes, they on their own buy drugs which they give out free. Sometimes, we contribute. Sometimes, from offerings we buy some of these things. Everybody tries to be their brother’s keeper. It brings a lot of love and brotherhood.
What are your experiences in church planting?
Well to the glory of God, we have been able to build a number of parishes. People will tell me pastor you mean that big church you built is not your own? I said churches cannot be our own; even houses we built are they really our own? When we die, those houses, do we know what will happen to them. One of my friends died, a pastor preached that all houses are for sale. But people don’t talk about the church. So when you build a church, clearly it’s not for me. I am only going to be there for a while then, I move on. So everywhere I go, I try to do something quite impressive. I cannot be living in a big house and go and worship in a shanty. If you respect God, you also will want to bring all kinds of people. There are some environments of worship that make it difficult to focus – imagine there is nowhere to sit, it will be difficult. So, you try to create an ambiance, an atmosphere that makes worship easy. We are trying to make the church attractive and children love to come to church. We tend to make it attractive. Once that foundation is laid, nobody needs to force you to go to the church. You will love to go to church. Everywhere I have gone, I try to do something better than I have done before. Most times, personal funding and other times with others. Believe me, there is no way tithe and offerings can execute the projects you have in mind. Apart from the churches you pastor, there are others you help to establish. Other people will go and pastor there – very many. We have a primary school and we are trying to build a secondary, that project is on right now. It’s very fulfilling doing the work of God. There are so many we build from scratch. Not one, not two, not three.
QWho is your role model?
Jesus is my role model. Every time I read the Bible I am completely uplifted. Just 33 to 34 years, look at where he was born, look at the impact he made. I try to live a life pleasing to God. That’s the truth. I don’t like extravagant things.
What keeps you afloat? You keep rising and rising.
It’s God. Somebody like me who has chosen the Christian path, it means I have no godfather. There is nobody I am ready to worship. Remember I started the slogan..NO MAN IS GOD. I cannot for the sake of political prominence worship any human being. I am very blunt there. I don’t belong to any cult. I can’t. It’s not possible. Then my social outings are limited and when it becomes nocturnal and wild, I am out of it. Most people in the political class are in such an atmosphere that a lot of things are arranged. By the time they are enjoying themselves, appointments are made, commitments are made but Pastor Ize Iyamu is not there. There are limitations you could have thought but funny enough God has spoken for me. I told you how I went to PDP without having installed any ward chairman, LGA Chairman, yet I got the ticket of the political party. I came back to APC, they have the governor, they have the people, again I got the ticket. So I believe when God is with you, you find that a lot of things that would have been complicated becomes easy.
Some people will ask me about 2024. I say to them what is 2024? Let us look up to God. But for now, let’s be thankful that we are alive. Honestly, nobody knows what is in it. If God wants me to do anything in 2024, there are things God will put in place that will make me know what he wants me to do. I don’t worry myself about this and that. I leave everything to God. I believe God is quite fair to me. I cannot complain. I just wish to be able to do more so that by the time I am gone, more people will know this man did his best when he was alive.
Pastor what is your best food?
Early in life I was very much into food. I used to enjoy pounded with plenty of meat. I cannot eat any food that has no meat. I have that to maintain. I am a meat person but I just find out in the last couple of years, food is not attractive as it used to be. Those days, I eat sizeable pounded yam that compliments my height. But now, what I eat, you just look at it, can this guy be serious? I don’t know if it’s a sign of getting older but I don’t think I have reached that level of age – not that I am 75 or 80 years. Any food that is well prepared. I can eat anything. As long as it’s nice. I don’t choose. Any soup at all goes with me. But honestly, I love Nigerian food. If I go abroad, the maximum I can stay without Nigerian food is one week. After one week I go crazy. If I don’t get a place to eat Nigerian food, I change my ticket and return home. I eat with cutleries when it’s rice or continental. When I have to eat the local ones, I do what my parents taught me.
Do you exercise?
I have a swimming pool and gym but I don’t do as I used to do because you wake up in the morning, people are already waiting for you. Almost on a daily basis. By the time I finish with them, I realize there are some places to go; before you know it, the day is gone. It’s something I am trying to get back to.
As a philanthropist, I believe in your 60th birthday, you are going to do something.
We need to think of something more impactful because these orphanages, you go there drop somethings, that is just a part of it. But I have been talking to my wife. We want to do something like seed in the hands of some young people that will help to change their lives. When you make a man to be strong, you have 40-50 people going to orphanages to help them. There are a lot of people we sponsor their education. We are trying to see how we can do more.