The member of the House of Representatives, representing Esan North East/Esan South East Federal Constituency of Edo State, Honourable Sergius Ogun, has asked those thinking the National Assembly would override President Muhammadu Buhari’s veto of the Electoral Act Amendment to perish the thought. Ogun said the leadership of the National Assembly, as presently constituted, lacks the courage to disagree with President Buhari on any issue.
The lawmaker, in an interview with NDUBUIDI ORJI, noted that with the rejection of the proposed electoral law by President Buhari, the bill “might just be dead”. He bared his mind on other issues.
What do you think is the fate of the electoral reforms under the Ninth Assembly, with the rejection of the Electoral Act Amendment Bill by President Muhammadu Buhari?
It might just be dead. I don’t know. I do not see this Ninth Assembly as constituted, doing anything, contrary to the wishes of the President; unless the President has declined assent, and he has told them to go ahead and do whatever they want to do. That there’s an agreement between the President and the leadership of National Assembly to say look, for X, Y reason, maybe privately, off record, I am declining my assent to this. But if you, as a parliament, want to go ahead and override this, you’re free. I am sure when that happens, the parliament, the leadership of the parliament as constituted in this ninth assembly will mobilise members to override the President, and we will support. But if he hasn’t done that; the president has not approached them in this manner, I do not see them doing otherwise.
Even with the kind of vigour with which the speaker has been canvassing for direct primaries?
The Electoral Act is more than direct primaries. I know even most of the very powerful senators, former governors are also canvasing for direct primaries, not just the speaker. Granted that the speaker moved for the amendment. So, there is enough firepower from within, but not to challenge the authority of the President. So, that is why I believe that the only way it can work is with an agreement from the President to say, just push it back to us, and then leave it to us. In that way, nobody is going to hold you responsible. When I mean, holding him responsible, we have heard that the governors are not in support of direct primaries. And maybe the President might not want to incur the wrath of the governors. So, he might tactically decline and then tell the National Assembly, do whatever you want to do. So, at the end of the day, nobody is going to blame him. The governors won’t blame him. I don’t know; that might just be one scenario. I also think that is the only time that this present Ninth Assembly leadership can summon the courage to do or work against the wishes of the president.
In the event that we are not able to have a new electoral legal framework before the next election, how do you think the 2023 polls will pan out?
It will be as expensive as before; if not more expensive, and the result might not be anything anybody can work with. But posterity will judge everyone. The National Assembly has approved so many loans for Mr President. We don’t get to hear the opposition speak out on the floor when these issues come up, only to a hear your party complain after the deed has been done.
You know the number in the membership of the opposition parties in the House today. We don’t have the number to overturn anything or upturn anything. So, it looks like the majority party is just having their way. In fairness to the Minority Leader, he has raised his voice a couple of times on the floor of the House, but usually he will not get votes. So, it is unfortunate. But Nigerians should be the judges of this. They have seen everything; nothing is done in a secret chamber. They write the letter to the House, it is read on the floor of the House and the approvals are given. If Nigerians are not happy about it, they should also challenge it. So, we are against it. The party clearly has said that. So, it is up to Nigerians to punish the APC. If Nigerians are ready to punish the APC, we won’t even bother about this Electoral Act. They will come out in their numbers and vote and stand to see it counted. And that is it. How did APC emerge in 2014 /2015? So, if Nigerians say today, we are tired of you because you will not make the right laws, you are taking loans, you are not creative. You are not inventing anything. We don’t want you anymore; once Nigerians speak, that is it. It’s not enough to talk about tinkering with the laws and all that. Yes, it is good to have a law that will make elections free, fair and credible. But if they are not willing to do it, ultimately, the power belongs to the people. And they will send them a very strong message; so that whichever government that comes in 2023 would know that the power resides with the people. I think Nigerians should send a very strong message to the APC by voting them out in 2023.
Talking about voting out APC in 2023, how prepared is your party to take over power at the centre? There have been pockets of disagreement, talks about governors hijacking the party, zoning formula and all that?
Everything you have mentioned are political. No contention. No quarrel. So, for the first time since I knew PDP they are speaking with one voice. If you say the governors have taken over, he who pays the piper dictates the tune. So, the governors should have a say in most of what is happening in the party. We have had a successful convention. We have a brand new National Working Committee. Tell the people in government, the APC to organise a simple convention. They cannot. They don’t have a board of trustees. They have names but they have never met. They don’t have a National Working Committee that is even handing over to another one. They have had caretaker now for over a year. So what are we talking about? So, PDP is very ready. Ready like yesterday. In an election today, I’m sure PDP will win. Talking about zoning, it is not an issue. If we decide today that we don’t want to do zoning for now, that’s fine. It becomes the party decision. So, that is not a problem for the PDP at all. Like I said, we are one united family, ready to take power in 2023.
The APC says your party has not been able to offer a virile opposition, that all you do is just issue press statements…
Statements that are constructive. We don’t want to go back to the kind of politics the APC played in 2013 and 2014. If you cast your mind back, for a long time under President Jonathan , the exchange rate was about 140 something, 150 Naira to the dollar. I was in the private sector then. I can remember that clearly. But when they started overheating the polity, Naira started declining, because people were buying dollars and leaving the country. Foreign companies were sending their personnel away, even Nigerians that have means to leave, left with their family. Then it became about N198 to the dollar. The APC came in. We had a wonderful person in President Jonathan, who conceded before the result was announced. He said that he wasn’t going to court, but the party could go to court, then turn around, prevailed on the party not to go to court. So, there were no issues of litigation hanging on the president elect. They squandered all that goodwill. So, where am I going? The naira easily could have bounced back to that N150. That didn’t happen. They came in, they didn’t have any ideas. Clueless. It took more than six months for ministers to be nominated and appointed. So, people were watching and lost interest. And then what happened thereafter? The naira started crashing. So, if they want us to play that kind of politics, of insulting people, calling people names, putting out tons and tons of lies out there, the PDP won’t do that. Like they say, kings don’t protest. In PDP, we are kingly. Nigerians can cast their mind back to the days when PDP was in power and to this present day and they will not think twice to vote for PDP. So, we don’t have to play their kind of dirty politics. They are angry. They are acrimonious. Name it. PDP can’t play that kind of politics. We have mature minds in PDP. Take your time, speak to anybody that has been in PDP that went to APC, if the person is honest, they will tell you I want to come back home. And most of them have come back home to PDP. They will tell they you don’t even know why they went to APC; because the journey to the APC was a waste of time. So, you cannot compare both parties. In short, APC is not a party. It will disintegrate before 2023. Mark my words.
Every now and then the House sets up probe panels to probe one issue or the other, but nothing comes out of the probes. And anything that has to do with the President, more or less dies a natural death in the Green chamber. Would you say the opposition has played its roles effectively in the House?
I don’t think the opposition has played any role in giving the APC a fight. We haven’t done that. Which is disgraceful. But if you also cast your mind back, after the 2019 election and how the leadership emerged, that might be the reason, why we have not have that kind of leadership. But talking about the House taking on matters that has to do with executive, it is also the very bad politics of the APC. I give it to the present speaker, from his second term till today, he has occupied leadership positions. So, he has been the fiercest opposition leader that has emerged in the parliament in this country, till date. So, as the speaker, he knows what to do to silence the opposition, and I think he has done that very well. You give it to him. Some people say, is this the same person that almost singlehandedly brought down the Jonathan Government? Yeah. He is not a unionist. He is just a politician.
So, it is up to the opposition to come together and do what they have to do. The speaker has the experience to manage the house in a way that such matters won’t come up. And I give him all the credit for that. He’s working for the executive. He is working for his party. We cannot begrudge him. It is for us to get up as an opposition and do what we have to do. And what is that? Oppose those things. If we cannot get the vote on the floor of the House, we go out and give a press conference. Go outside and mobilise people to do what you have to do. But to say we don’t have the numbers is not enough.
Would you say the Legislature, as we have it today, is independent?
It is not there right now. That is why people say we are a rubberstamp House. There is an issue at stake right now- the signing of the Electoral Act Amendment Bill. And I said it here. The leadership of this Ninth Assembly, as constituted, cannot override whatever the President says. They cannot. So, the independence is not there right now, which is what the executive really wants. The Executive came out and campaigned for this group of people. They campaigned for them, called party members together and give them instructions. Maybe, they even funded them. So, why were they doing all that, that they will come and challenge them? No. So, we are not expecting anything. In short, they could not have behaved any other way. They could not have done otherwise. They are playing scripts that the executive wanted from day one.