Former President of the Ijaw National Congress, Prof Kimse Okoko, has said that the security situation in Nigeria is frightening and warned that the country may plunge into a terrible disaster. In this interview with VINCENT KALU, the erudite Professor of Political Science also stated that only the implementation of the 2014 National Conference report will save the nation.
What is your view on the state of the nation?
Nigeria is in a slippery slope to something that is very disastrous to the corporate existence of this nation and we must do everything possible to avoid this from happening. It is sad, very sad.
Following the situation in this country, former President Olusegun Obasanjo wrote a letter to President Buhari allaying fears that Nigeria may plunge into war. Do you entertain the same fears for Nigeria?
All I can say about the letter is the description of Nigeria, including the Islamisation and Fulanisation raised by Obasanjo, and my warning is that Nigeria must avoid religious war. All the same, the former president made a point going by what is happening in the country. President Buhari is completely oblivious of the atrocities committed by the herdsmen in this country; he doesn’t even see that there is any problem.
So, if people are killed the way it is happening in all parts of this country, there is a genuine fear that if care is not taken, we can be plunged into a war situation. That point made by Obasanjo is well taken. However, the only thing I disagree with him completely is his call for a national conference. We do not need another national conference; the 2014 National Conference will serve the purpose to resolve the problems in this country; the implementations of the 2014 Confab reports, with some modifications, will form the basis of constituent assembly, whose main job is to draw a new people’s constitution based on those recommendations modified.
We do not need any new national conference again; ditto the recommendations of the so-called El Rufai, APC Committee on Restructuring.
Restructuring is not a party affair; the 2014 National Conference includes people from all shades of opinions in this country––physically challenged, traditional rulers, academics, etc.
So, for el-Rufai to come up with a suggestion that their own APC committee on restructuring report is ready is a non-starter; it is completely unacceptable and would not be used for anything around; let them keep it within the confines of APC. Let us use the 2014 Confab recommendations to draw a brand new people’s constitution via a constituent assembly, which will be subjected to national referendum.
This is the best option for us if we are to stop the slide we are on now; we are on the precipice. We have to do that and ignore the call for another national conference, which is a waste of time. To that extent, I disagree with Obasanjo, but for his description of what is happening in this country, I think he should be given the credit for speaking up at the appropriate time, despite all his shortcomings.
While you are talking about Obasanjo speaking up at the appropriate time and giving him credit, some organisations like the MACBAN, and some northern elders are calling for his head for trying to undermine the security of the nation. What is your position on this?
Who is undermining the security of this country? Is not the Miyetti Allah Cattle Breeders Association of Nigeria (MACBAN) the ones undermining the security of this country? Obasanjo was just describing the state of the nation. What is wrong with that? The people creating the problems for us, who are undermining the corporate existence of this country, are the MACBAN and all the related organisations. They are the problems of this country, not Obasanjo’s description of this country. I completely disagree with them that Obasanjo was undermining the security of the nation.
You alluded that while the herdsmen are killing people, the president looks the other way. Why do you have such opinion?
He is the patron of the Miyetti Allah, so I am not surprised. I am not surprised that he is not moved by the killings in this country. It is a shame. He is the president of Nigeria, he is not the president of Fulani and obviously he should be more disposed to taking the security of this country seriously.
Can you imagine all the killings, maiming, raping in the country by herdsmen, but not a single person has been charged to court. Rather, they are pointing accusing fingers on the former president. How could anybody accept that situation, where series of hundreds of people are being killed in Nigeria and not one person has been arrested, why must it be so? It is fair to conclude that Mr President is doing that because he is part and parcel of that bizarre and destructive organisation; it is a clear assumption.
Are you not afraid over the situation in this country?
Of course, one has to be afraid and if we are not careful, this country will plunge into a terrible disaster and nobody would be seen to be safe in this country. It will be a terrible thing. All well meaning people must ensure that it doesn’t happen. For me in particular, I have always believed that Nigeria must stay together for the sake of the black race. Despite everything that is happening, I still believe that we should remain united as one country than to break away into pieces, which will be so bad for the Black race. This still remains my concern, to save the black race from the shame of slavery, et cetera.
There is the campaign to discourage and stop hate speeches because of what it can cause in the country; on the issue of Ruga, a group, Coalition of Northern Youths issued an ultimatum but the authorities didn’t caution them. Where would this lead the country?
This is what I’m saying, when you treat a group differently from the others, it can’t work. The other groups will see you as being unjust, unfair and taking sides on critical issues.
You cannot condemn one group for making hate speech and you leave the other group. It is unacceptable. Ruga is a non-starter, and must be rejected in its totality. Let ranches be set in places that have comparative advantage in terms of livestock breeding.
You want to spend government fund to set up Ruga; it is criminal, and completely unacceptable, and the earlier they realise that, the better for us. There shouldn’t be anything like suspension; it should be stopped out rightly. Let private enterprises find their way, and the process of ranching, and establishing it in states that have comparative advantage take place.
The argument why the Federal Government should support Ruga or ranching is that it has been supporting crop farming and has not supported livestock farming. Do you buy into that argument?
What type of silly reasoning is that? Have they been giving support to fishermen? Farm crop, is it only in one part of the country; it is all over the country. Are they giving fertilisers free? If you pay for fertiliser, it will be given to you.
People pay for the fertilisers, but the Rugas are to be set up with government money. So, what are they saying? All these people who turn blind eyes to the atrocities being committed by these herdsmen and bandits are the ones promoting this argument.
You talked about the country going on slippery slope with a possibility of plunging into a disaster, what is the solution?
The way out of our problems is that this country has to be restructured and that is our only hope of survival as a nation because we are running a unitary system of government in a supposedly federal system. This cannot work and there is no way for it to work. We should have said no to that kind of enterprise that was foisted on us by a fraudulent constitution written by a few myopic individuals.
We must have an elected constituted assembly to sit and draft a new constitution based on the recommendations of the 2014 National Conference reports with some modifications, which would be put to a referendum so that it becomes the people’s constitution. Without that, there can be no progress in this country.
Look at what is happening, Vision 2030, for example, was supposed to elevate Nigeria to one of the 30 richest countries, biggest economy in the world, but where are we; it is just not possible because the underpinning bases of economic activity in this country is frightening because of the fraudulent constitution, which has created that unfortunate situation for us.
We must as a people and without any further waste of time prevail on the president to initiate the setting up of an elected constituent assembly. Let him send the bill to the National Assembly, and let’s see whether the NASS will not accept that proposal. That is the only peaceful way to salvaging the country, the only peaceful solution to solving the problems of this country.
The National Assembly is there, what is the need for Constituent Assembly?
Constituent Assembly is to come up with a brand new constitution, which the NASS cannot do because they are not empowered by law to come up with a new constitution. All what the NASS can do is to amend the existing constitution, and I’m saying that the existing constitution is the problem of this country and must be completely rejected.
So, constituent assembly can go ahead in the presence of the NASS?
The two are not contradictory, no. What I’m emphasising is that Mr. President must urgently set in motion an elected constituent assembly to draw up a new people’s constitution, which would be put up to a referendum in this country. Anything outside that, we are just wasting our time. We cannot industrialise an economy based on generators; it is not possible. It is because the government at the centre has the monopoly of power and dictates who should get what and when.
The so-called federating units, the states are just vassals to the federal government. The constitution as it is, gives the Federal Government power to centralised production and that is why we are in this terrible mess and we cannot continue like that. We have all seen what is happening in the country and that is a fundamental problem. Look at the humongous salaries of members of the NASS and the state assemblies, what type of system is that, which allows a senator to get N25 million a month, yet you cannot pay N30, 000 to a worker and you think that is just and that we will live in peace; no, it is not possible. Natural law prohibits that kind of injustice, and I have always argued that there cannot be any meaningful peace in any society without justice.
The earlier the so-called leaders realised that, the better for us. We cannot continue on this line.
When the hammer will descend, it is my wish that all the politicians who have looted this country dry, all the officials who have looted this country dry and their collaborators will be the ones to die and not the poor who have nowhere to go.