Mazi Sam Ohuabunwa, former Chairman/CEO, Pfizer and later Neimeth and former Chairman, Nigeria Economic Summit Group believes that Nigeria can use economics to drive her politics. In this interview with OBIDIKE JERRY, he spoke on a wide range of issues.

Looking at your profile you spent 33years in pharmaceutical industry, 18 years of it at the executive level which means your rise was very fast. Could you please tell us the secret behind it?

Well, what helped my rise in my career I believe were a couple of factors; the first one was that I had vision of what I wanted. I always determined where I wanted to be at a given time or within a given time frame. The first five years in the company, I said I was going to be learning everything about this company. That pushed me, made me work harder than the average person. That got me recognized by the company and got promoted so frequently. And after the fifth year, I changed my vision that I would like to be like the CEO and the chairman of the company so that I can be encouraging people and welcoming people. That now changed me in my working attitude because I was now working as the future CEO or chairman of the company and everything I did I had my sight, integrity, hard work, productivity. Everything was targeted to that and so it was helpful. So vision, hard work, commitment, tenacity, because there were periods of discouragement like what happened to Joseph in the Bible, you get to a point where you couldn’t see where you were going to, they want to stop you, put obstacles in your way. You could give up but that ability to be persistent was helpful. Of course, not to sound religious, the overall God’s grace was extraordinary. In fact the wisdom even to set goals came from God. The periods of trials and challenges and that you were able to overcome them was by his grace.

You were once chairman of Nigeria Economic Summit Group, President of Nigeria Employers’ Consultative Association, Chairman, Manufacturers Association, Ikeja Branch and I know that regularly you advise government on how to manage the economy. The APC government at the federal level recently celebrated two years in office. What is your assessment of their management of the economy of the economy so far?

I wrote an article recently where I said their performance was not inspiring. I gave them a ‘C’ for effort and a ‘D’ for result. Three key issues are major. First was lack of speed-government stayed six months without a cabinet? In this period, nothing happened. Six months is a lot of time for an economy to deteriorate. And what is worse, they took on the economy when the economy was already declining. It required immediate action. Two, following from that delay, it took them forever to develop workable economic plan. The plan (Nigeria Economic Recovery and Growth plan) they just launched recently should have been what they should have started the government with but they started with their manifesto and manifesto is not what you use to run an economy. Manifesto is what you use to win election where you tell the truth and not too much of the truth. You say the things you want to do and the ones that are not possible. But you just use that to hoodwink voters who are ready to swallow anything. So, those were the issues-they didn’t have a plan to start, they delayed work and when they started, there were also wrong-headed economic policies. Yes, they were startled by the decline in foreign exchange, foreign exchange was not flowing, GDP had fallen, so there were some panic and they began to hold breaks; what I call command and control. It always happens in crisis; people going into command and control mode. Where it works is only in the military. Economy does not respond to that very well. What they would have done is what they call ‘make-loose to gain control’. What they would have done is rather than focusing on controlling exchange out flow because that’s what they started with by banning 41 items, stopping domiciliary accounts, allocating foreign exchange, stopping Bureau de change, all kinds of things to protect the declining foreign exchange. Of course you know that if you close your door so that what is inside doesn’t leave, what is outside cannot come in either. You blocked yourself. So, those fixing of foreign exchange thing, exchange rate-people were saying let the naira be moderated by market realities. They said no, deregulate, they said no. You know the command and control economy failed us. That’s what worsened our problem. But when the government now began to respond, began to supply more to foreign exchange market, open new windows for SMEs, for invisibles, you saw the economy immediately begin to come back. Foreign direct investment was almost dead because people who wanted to bring their money to do business didn’t know the exchange rate they would bring their money and they didn’t want to bring at the exchange rate that was worse than what market was ready to give them. So, they stopped. They stood waiting for you. They went on doing business in other areas until government decided to rearrange and they started coming in. So, we have seen a drop in inflation. We have seen an improvement in GDP even though we are still in recession but the rate of decline is not as high because the right things are being done. There’s a policy, there’s a plan, there’s an attempt to implement the plan and the fairly bullish budget (both 2016 and 2017) even though it is funded largely by deficit, there’s a high deficit component. That deficit component is causing some concern because most of the deficit is from borrowing and we are talking that debt to revenue ratio is growing but if those debts are properly applied to economic sectors, that will cause for that increase in productivity. But if it is used to pay salaries, if it is used to support overhead instead of using it for capital, then you are in trouble. If you put the money in capital, we have hope that it can be paid back. But if it is put in consumption, then there’s going to be challenges. So for the first two years, they didn’t do well with the economy. At least the first 15 months but I think government is beginning to readjust, which is good and it gives hope that maybe by the time they would be  three years in power, the scores would be different.

The budget you mentioned, looking at the fact that the capital expenditure is about two trillion naira and they have to borrow about two trillion naira also to finance the budget, does that give you hope that this 2017 budget will be able to kick start the economy in terms of the capital expenditure?

It is still better, 30 percent capital expenditure, you know there was a time I think in 2014 when it was about 18 percent of the budget. That was frightening. Now it has gone to 30 percent; even if the money we are borrowing is for capital expenditure, it is good. So we now use money from other sources to deal with our recurrent expenditure. If the recurrent is just what we generate from national income, from taxes, it is not good enough but it is still better than borrowing to fund recurrent. As long as our borrowing is to fund capital, it is still better. When you have an economy that is in a recession, you have two choices. One is to cut your coat according to your size but it can be traumatic; it can take you to deeper recession (depression). So you need to spend. Government needs to spend but also to make sure  the private sector is also spending which was one of the problems we had because the private sector was not spending because of the difficulties in bringing money, because of high cost of doing business, ease of doing business was a problem. Private sector (foreign investors) was not spending as much money. So, we said make the ease of doing business better, have justified and global foreign exchange policy so that the pricing of your exchange would be globally acceptable. We now have investment. Investments come in, they would create wealth so that those investments will support public sector investment. If we spend N7.44 trillion without private sector investment, we won’t go anywhere. Private sector investment is much higher. So, we need to pursue both. I support bullish public sector investment as long as the money is going into capital but then attract a counterbalancing and supporting private sector investment through making the environment attractive to investment, pricing your foreign exchange properly, putting right policies in place, taking away those things that inhibit business so that private business can flow. On the back of the two, the economy will come out of recession.

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You mentioned foreign direct investment, do you think the health of Mr. President who is now in a London hospital for about one month now, the second time this year, is not affecting this aspect of our economy–getting more foreign direct investment?

Well, I won’t say yes or no. It is a matter of relativity. The truth is, if the president of a country is healthy, he could work, making policies and committing to programmes and projects, and there’s going to be higher confidence in the country. If the president is unwell, people would be wondering the policies these other people are making without him, will he support it when he gets well? Will it change? Are you getting the point because they are aware that he is not involved in policies now?  The decisions, commitments that are being made by the ministers or acting president, there’s always a query. Will he rewrite it? Or will he cancel it? That will stop certain investment decisions. There’s no gainsaying it. However, the major issue for investing in an economy is what they call the fundamentals-the soundness of the fundamentals. If the fundamentals are sound, people may wish to invest even in this kind of situation if they see that the right economic policies are being taken, the market is being broadened, reduction in bureaucracy and government, there’s privatization, there’s deregulation, there’s liberalization, so the factors of production are moving away from the hand of government to the hand of private sector. It attracts more investment. But if it is into government, if government is controlling so much, they are worried because nobody is sure what government anywhere can do. Look at America. One man called Donald Trump just wakes up and says the agreement his people reached will not work, etc. Nigeria’s presidency is even more powerful than that of America. If it were Nigeria, all those policies like travel ban, nobody would have challenged him. So the private sector is suspicious of government everywhere. What I said is yes there is some impact but I believe that if the government led by the acting president maintains the current economic policy direction that we are seeing while the CBN is becoming more open, where the fiscal policies are getting more transparent and more bullish, where there’s an effort to remove obstacles to people doing business, to improving the operating environment. If we continue in this line then I believe there will still be foreign direct investment coming if not at the maximum level but it is not as if they would drop because the president is not there. But if they remain on the hesitation where decisions are not taken, actions are not taken, things are not moving, where it is taken forever to sign a budget that has been passed. Those kinds of things can affect the system.

Even the budget you mentioned, there’s this argument whether the acting president or the president will sign. And following from what you just said, some Nigerians are saying based on patriotism shouldn’t the president resign on health reasons so that the economy will grow. Where do you stand in this argument?

Well, for me, I believe that the critical thing is that if we have an acting president, then the acting president should function as acting president. He should be given full powers. If he doesn’t have the full powers, it is wrong. And that attempt to reduce his powers is what we saw in the coordinating president thing we all quarreled about in that letter from his office to the National Assembly. That coordinating vice president means that he doesn’t have full powers. So, that’s where the trouble is and in this case which we can say if Mr. President you are unable to perform you have two choices, pass your power provided by the constitution to vice president as acting president. Let him perform as long as you are sick. God help you to recover which is what everybody is praying for and come back. Otherwise if you know that your health is a critical issue for you and is causing problem for the nation, is causing problem for you, then you may take your own decision. I do not think that his resignation is primary in my own opinion. His resignation is not the issue. The issue is let him give power to vice president so that we don’t have two presidents at the same time. We don’t have two captains at the same time. He is resting. There’s a captain on duty. When he comes back, he takes over. But he cannot be resting and at the same time not letting this captain function. That’s why people are afraid. That’s why there’s going to be trouble. My wish is, let him properly empower the acting president.  And of course, the acting president is already empowered by the constitution. So let him wake up because the constitution has given him the power. Whether the president does anything or not, he is constitutionally empowered already. But you know there are times you release a dog or cat, a cat that has been in bondage, it cannot run again. It will just be hanging around still believing it is still in captivity. So that is the issue. I believe and I have said it in my writing recently that the vice president has an opportunity to make impact, to create a legacy whether it is for one day, one week, Nigeria would record it. We saw it when he acted the first time, some of the things he did-went to Niger Delta to calm things and he allowed the CBN to begin to move in the right direction and the economy began to show recovery. So, I believe that he should use the power that the constitution has given him. I don’t think that he should wait for the president or anybody to empower him. The constitution has empowered him. Let him function so that there should be no excuses. The vice president has become the acting president; he should just keep running and not looking back.

The IPOB and MASSOB agitation for Biafra had a successful sit-at-home in the South East and beyond. How do you see the developing event? What is your own idea of agitation for Biafra?

My understanding of the agitation is that the agitation has come because the people who regard themselves as Biafrans, largely the Igbo people believe that this country is not treating them fairly. The war ended and those who were defeated in the war continued to suffer and smile, suffering from the psychology of having lost the war. Some young men then who have no such psychology see a country where the odds are against them-their own region is where you have the least Federal Government presence, the least number of state is in their region, they are the ones who are held back; if you score 100, you won’t go to university, you go to a secondary school. Somebody scores 9 or 10, he goes. They look at what is going on and said this is not the country I like to live in. The odds are against him. I am not being treated fairly and equally. MASSOB was formed around 2000 or 2001. IPOB came to be in 2011 or 2012. They had even taken the country to court during Jonathan’s time. MASSOB initially became a pressure group like saying pay attention to our problem but they were not violent unlike some other people who were asking for attention and they were violent. IPOB took the Federal Government to court asking for reparation and paying compensation for both physical losses and psychological losses and that the three Rs that Gowon promised were not fulfilled. And so everyone went about his business. This government came, the inequity, the discrimination became official because the president said they were going to discriminate. Those who gave him 97 percent, he would treat them differently from those who gave him five percent. And he began to do it not just saying it. Today, in the whole of government machinery, South East is missing. In the MDAs leadership, in the military-Air force, Navy, Army, Civil Defence, Police, DSS, NIA, EFCC, the Igbo are not found. In the government like I said minus the ministers, we are nowhere. This discrimination now raised the awareness and caused more issues. That’s why the thing has intensified. And then government now made a hero out of Nnamdi Kanu. Instead of letting him or slapping on the cheek and letting him go, they now seized him and began to refuse court order to release him. In fact, the first demonstrations of Biafra came when they started campaigning for his release. Before he was arrested, there was no such thing. So, I think Nigeria has a choice. The choice is create a country where there will be equity, justice and fair play if you don’t want this kind of thing to happen. Otherwise, you can’t stop people from seeking better position. It is their human right even for self-determination. You can’t force it. The vice president is preaching unity. He doesn’t have to. He is wasting his time because the elements of preaching unity, they have rejected it-all the recommendations of the national conference by Jonathan. Obasanjo’s political conference, PRONACO-they have all recommended how to begin to build a nation of equity, fair play and justice where people are going to be happy to belong to. Therefore, if you can’t do that therefore and you are talking about unity, how would it ever happen?  I said that the unity of the oppressed and the oppressor, the unity of the slave and the master, the unity of the kidnapper and the hostage cannot last because one would be singing songs of freedom until he gets it. What happened on May 30, 2017 is that song of freedom. The oppressed is singing song of freedom. Let’s learn from history. History has taught us that when a people feel they are oppressed, when they feel they are maligned, they will seek freedom. And it doesn’t matter how long it takes. Unless that thing is changed, they will keep fighting till they get it. That’s what South Africa did. That’s what Israel did. Every group in history who felt they were oppressed will continue to fight. And for me it is simple to resolve. The day Nigeria decides to change its policy and treat Igbo people as integral, equal part of this nation, you would see that the music and the song would change.