By Kenny Ashaka
Peoples Democratic Party, PDP Caretaker Committee Chairman, Alhaji Ahmed Mohammed Makarfi says the time for the restructuring of Nigeria is now. He therefore asked the Federal Government to convene a body of Nigerians across board that is reflective of the diverse interests of Nigerians to tackle the restructuring of the country.
According to him, the restructuring is inevitable now that democracy has gotten a secured position from which further advances can be made. “Shying away from agreeing to talk is what creates the wrong impression that is not helpful in our polity. I fully, fully support the need for us to sit down to discuss anything that is under the sun. But when we discuss we must speak to each other with decorum, with respect for each other’s personal views and background,” the former governor of Kaduna State added.
Makarfi, a Senator who represented Kaduna North in the 6th and 7th National Assembly in this interview blamed the military for the blemished form of federalism practiced in Nigeria.
Perhaps, the best place to start this interview is your home turf, Kaduna State where the jobs of over 4,000 District and Village heads have been swept off by the current government in power. You created chiefdoms and districts and installed them before you left office as governor of the state in 2007. Now they have been sacked. Why did you have to create chiefdoms and districts, of that size?
To be honest, I did not anticipate this would be the first question, but since you have asked it, I will say what I can, and it is not because of anything personal between me and the current governor, Mallam Nasir El-Rufai. Personally, since I have direct communication with him, I have drawn his attention to what I see as the true position as I know it because I am not aware of close to 5,000 districts or village heads. I drew his attention to the fact that we created chiefdoms which are still untouched by the government. The central issue was the creation of chiefdoms and you must accept the fact that the governor has not touched the chiefdoms. Of course, the creation of chiefdoms necessitated the creation of districts and at that time we created 200 plus districts, nothing more and nothing less. We didn’t create any village head or units. All those activities were those that were may be done at local level, with the consent of the local governments because they were the ones paying them, I assume. Those are not the issues that would come to the governor for approval even for information. I mean village heads, not district heads. All we created were chiefdoms which the governor has not touched. They are still being retained. The districts, based on what I read was that he consulted the chiefs and they agreed to revert to the old districts. So they did away with the 200 plus districts that we created. And 200 plus districts is far from the over 4,000 that have been mentioned in the media. If the chiefs on their own in conjunction with the local governments created those village units, I wouldn’t be in a position to know. That would be an issue at local level. Remember we expect, to some extent, federal structure of government and traditional institutions on their own had what they were doing and I am not in a position to know what each emir or chief has done. But they were not also creation of the state government per se. As I said I have direct communication with him; I have drawn his attention to this.
But was the creation of chiefdoms and districts in quest of self determination for the people?
Well, the quest for self determination necessitated the creation of chiefdoms and the chiefdoms still exist because no chiefdom has been abrogated. Now, the creation of districts was in furtherance of that, but the report I have read in the media, because nobody consulted me, is that the action of the government was in consultation with the emirs and chiefs. If the emirs and chiefs are there representing their people, why should I pick quarrel with their decision.
It was like your administration didn’t think out of the box in terms of the financial implication
As I said the ones we created were less than 300. That is different from 4,000 plus. Is that not so? And that is what I as a former governor can speak about. As far back as 2014, seven years after I had left office, I was invited to attend the installation of some village heads. So, several years after I left office, village heads were being created by traditional institutions in conjunction with the local governments. So those decisions were theirs and not those of the government.
What can you say about the present government and the political party on which they came to power two years ago? How effective has this administration been in terms of its impact on Nigerians? Are there things they have done that you think should have been done differently?
Quite a lot, but we have to accept also that it has been an administration that has been largely affected by the ill-health of the President. Of course, that is not to downplay the role the Acting President is playing. But you know a captain is a captain; the Vice-President elected by Nigerians is Yemi Osinbajo who is now the acting president. It has been said many times, that seemingly that they did not come into office prepared. It took them a long time to take key decisions that from day one ought to have been taken to get the government running. And Nigerians, not just the PDP, have spoken about the slow style of governing this country. So, though the president and Nigerians didn’t anticipate what is happening now, this is a government that is actually dragging its feet and of course, not as united as the PDP when we were elected because right from day one there came divisions in the APC and the government. And that is why we in the PDP have continued to say that no matter our flaws we still remain a formidable force to be reckoned with and a viable option. We know that right now we have our challenges, but it is minor. The moment we are over with it we will be in a right position to provide the right leadership to Nigerians.
Baring the president’s Ill-health, do you see the president as one who can offer an effective leadership to Nigerians?
If Nigerians thought he was not going to offer effective leadership they couldn’t have elected him. That is the judgement Nigerians made. So, rightly or wrongly you have to give him the chance to perform. That chance has not played out itself because of the reason I have mentioned earlier. But that is not an excuse. For us, the APC is a failed government and you can’t run away from the fact that it is a failed government.
I am sure you should have the mechanism for judging how acceptable the PDP is today in the year 2017 as opposed to what it was in 2014 and early 2015. How acceptable is your party to Nigerians? Can the party win elections again?
Let me use the example of the most recent bye-election in Katsina State, the president’s senatorial zone. Even the independent election monitors did a press conference and said that the result declared by INEC was not a true reflection of the wishes of the voters. INEC had declared APC as having won that election. And going by the report of the election monitors it implied that it is PDP that won. Even then, INEC declared that PDP won in one local government and narrowly lost in another. For this to happen in the president’s senatorial zone with all the problems we have, coupled with what the election observers said, that should answer your question.
Would using the result of a bye-election where PDP won one local government in a senatorial zone be a measure of PDP’s acceptability in Nigeria having regards to the fact that INEC officials are the players and not election observers?
Why was APC relying on monitors’ report? Should they choose what to accept and what not to accept? And the monitors observed the real time the things happened in polling units. The monitors were clear that results declared at the polling units were different from the ones declared at the collation center.
From what is going on in the PDP, next year would portend a lot of challenges so much so that even if it comes out of its problems unscathed, it would require very strong muscles to limit the damage done to the party by some powerful and ambitious party men just like it was done to the party in 2013, 2014 and 2015. Has the PDP surveyed the political terrain enough? Is the party rebuilding platforms and new territories, particularly in hostile areas?
We have been working on that and the press has been covering series of meetings that the party has been holding with more than 16 political parties. Of course that is what the press can see. Other things we are not prepared to disclose. But we have been talking with one another in terms of building alliances without compromising the core values of the party that would enable us to change things in this country for the better.
Is PDP equipped to take over government as it is?
Absolutely. Even today we are prepared and if we take over today you will see changes even the next day.
With the factions that are so daring?
This matter will come to an end. The case has been heard and since that is the case we all know the maximum time that judgement would be given. So we should just be patient and allow the judiciary to do its work.
As a true Northerner I must not fail to ask you this question about…
I am a true Nigerian from the North.
Some Northerners believe that President Buhari has delivered and that they have no regrets voting for him; that they saw evidence of a PDP government that didn’t care enough to fight Boko Haram, that they wanted a president that would fight Boko Haram and they found one in Buhari. That they wanted a president that would halt the pillage of their resources, they got that in Buhari; that they wanted a president that would be so transparent that even those around him will be afraid to touch their money, they got that in Buhari. They also got a president that is reconstructing the North East. Therefore, the president has delivered. What do you think of this?
Well, Rome was not built in a day. If PDP did not record successes in dealing with Boko Haram, elections could not have taken place peacefully there and APC would win. Remember, elections took place in all the states of the North East without exception. If the situation was not conducive based on what we were achieving, elections could not have taken place. APC built on a foundation already laid. So it is a shared success. Of course you can still see… terrorism you can’t just …it takes time. We acknowledge the successes recorded. We are not disputing that, but there is still a lot to do to bring terrorism to an end. It is not by politicizing the issue of terrorism. Dealing with this matter requires all hands to be on deck. And the PDP is prepared to deal with that and to align with anybody to bring terrorism to an end in Nigeria and to restore peace and tranquility to any part of this country that may be facing one threat or the other. Now, on the issue of squander, Buhari may not be squandering money as a person, but that is not to say the same thing with the others in the government of the APC. They will not know those who have squandered now until they are not in power. Let’s wait until the APC is not in power then you will see the facts that will come out and you will be able to compare the 16 years of PDP and the four years of APC because I don’t see the APC going beyond four years. Let’s wait until when they are not in power. That’s when you can fairly judge, compare and contrast. When you are in power you are not x-rayed as when you are not in power. And that is the truth and you cannot run away from the truth. Let’s wait until when they are not in power then you can make an honest judgement as to what level of corruption may have gone on under their administration and then you compare what must have happened under the PDP.
I want your thoughts on this whole issue of restructuring Nigeria. It has been a controversial topic for long. Are you in support of restructuring? It would seem we have different meaning of the word as we have different people and sections of the country advocating for the restructuring of Nigeria. At the end, it is like we are moving in circles in this country and…
I mentioned that in my speech at the press conference, that restructuring means different things to different people. For us to be on the same wavelength, there might be the need to convene a small body of Nigerians across the board that will be reflective of the diverse interest of this country. Let’s agree on what we mean by restructuring and what we are looking for and the framework for that because right now depending on where you come from and what are the issues, when I say restructuring it may not mean what you take restructuring to be. I agree with you that we will be going round in circles. But we must not be afraid to sit down and talk over anything. Shying away from agreeing to talk is what creates the wrong impression that is not helpful in our polity. I fully, fully support the need for us to sit down to discuss anything that is under the sun. But when we discuss we must speak to each other with decorum, with respect for each other’s personal views and background.
What form of restructuring would you want for Nigeria?
It’s not what I will want that people of Nigeria would want. For me, the greatest form of restructuring and orientation is the taking away of government institutions from the control and personal usage of leaders. For instance, the loyalty of the security forces in the country should be to the nation not to the president or to the governor or to anybody in power. The paramilitary institutions, whether Customs or Immigration, their loyalty should be to serve the national interest, not the interest of anybody in power. The prosecution system should serve the national interest not following the dictates from anybody in power. If you don’t address this the ordinary man will never enjoy government in Nigeria. People will continue to use these key institutions to serve their personal interests and trample on the rights of others and there is no way we can progress. Look at what is happening in South Africa. You see a prosecution counsel trying President Zuma. Can that happen in Nigeria? Look at what is happening in the US. So, if we don’t take these meddling, control and usurpation of these key institutions that provide security, level playing ground, provide enabling environment for investors to come in, from the control of political leaders, I doubt if we will ever achieve the kind of progress we envisage.
If you take them from the control of political leaders whom do we give them to?
How are others functioning? We will have to study how others are functioning. We may not from day one attain their status but when we study how they are doing it in their places and we do the institutional restructuring, we will get there. We should start now to have a federal system of government. The examples I have given underline how the center controls our resources and use them the way they wish to suppress others. It is not in dispute that the incursion of the military into political governance from mid-1960s all but eroded the very essence of federalism as was practiced in pre-and immediate post independence to largely service the command structure of the institution. Along the line, even democratic institutions have had to make do with the military imposed structure due largely to the fact that democratic dispensations, including ours have had to govern by the dictates of constitutions promulgated by the military institution which is basically unitary in nature. Now that democracy has gotten a foothold in the country for the first time, surviving all the elements for close to two decades, a critical look at areas that need improvement is imperative. It is therefore not out of place for any segment to come out with the ideas that they believe will strengthen the structures of our federalism with a view to restructuring it in such a way that it serves all of us and not just some of us.
In 2014, the PDP government led by former President Jonathan convoked the National Conference. What many would call the Who is Who in Nigeria attended and made far reaching recommendations. Today, Nigerians from the North and the South are deep in controversy over the report from that conference. While Nigerians of Northern extraction are asking for the jettisoning of the report, their southern counterparts want the recommendations implemented. Where do you stand?
The Senate has requested the executive to submit the report. I believe if the Senate and the House of Representative are a reflection of Nigeria that may be a good beginning to have a look at it. But then, new issues have arisen since 2014 when this conference held. Society, like life, is dynamic. New things are cropping up that may not be included in that particular report. So while that legislative action if submitted to the National Assembly may be going on, may be through public hearing, the new things that have cropped up may be made known to the legislature. But another way is to have a mini group to review that, taking into consideration emerging issues. All these are issues that government in consultation with Nigerians should come to conclusion. They are not matters that we should just sweep under the carpet. We need to look at all these issues. The key issue is that we should stop hate speeches, stop insulting each other and talk with mutual respect for one another. If we imbibe this manner of communication, we are going to achieve a lot.
Let’s talk about the quit notice given to the Igbo by the Arewa youths. Some people are angry that inspite of the order for their arrest nothing has happened and the youths are still insisting on their quit notice.
Quit notice, ultimatum and so on are being issued. Even the Abuja locals here say they want everybody to move and leave Abuja. So when you are talking about quit notices you should not be singling out one particular group. If you do that and you are not mentioning others, then we are not being realistic. We will be giving the impression that what others are doing is right. Anytime anybody from the north, east, south or west does anything which threatens national harmony, peace and tranquility, I think we should not wait until there is reaction or counter reaction. We should rise in condemning such action wherever it is coming from, whether from Arewa, Afenifere, MASSOB, Niger-Delta Avengers or wherever it is coming from. But as strong as that notice was, Northern leaders, Northern Governors Forum and Governor El-Rufai have all reacted. It is also wrong not to applaud the action they have started taking. The condemnation continued as if no action was taken. If a wrong was done and now you are seeing that something is being done to deal with it, come out and encourage it. Like when the South-east was shut down, public officials should have come out to encourage people to come out and go about their normal businesses with assurances on the protection of lives and property.
Shouldn’t there have been something done to serve as a deterrent to others who might want to toe the same line?
What I am saying is that any group whether from the south, west, east or north that takes any action which threatens the peace and unity of this country we should all rise up and condemn it. That ultimatum was wrong. I had imagined that the actions of the Northern governors and Mallam El-Rufai should have been encouraged, but going through the pages of the papers at that period, it was as if nothing was done by the people. We continued to emphasise what the boys did and not what the leadership are doing.
But the youths are not remorseful
I am not making excuse for what they have done. I have said it was wrong and condemnable.
To many, the show of bravado being displayed by the youths after the condemnation by northerners tend to show that what the youths did was the thinking of the northern political establishment
The Chairman of the Northern Governors Forum on behalf of the governors addressed a press conference on it. They were mentioned but not with the kind of support and encouragement that would have put a stop to it. The majority of the comments that followed was like a drum of… a reaction to what the youths did rather than a positive comment on what the leadership has started doing. And that was a mistake because we will just be playing into the hands of these people that we do not know those controlling them. You find this kind of people everywhere.
Are we not now due for a Sovereign National Conference the way it is?
Like I said, Nigerians have a government. If they have something they want to discuss they should approach the government and discuss it. I want to repeat what I have been saying. Agreed things are not going the way they ought to go. We need a better functioning federal system of government that will address some of the issues I have already mentioned. How do we get there? We must talk among ourselves the kind of restructuring, institutional reforms that we must have in place that will make every part of Nigeria feel a sense of belonging and make Nigeria work for everybody taking into consideration all the agitations that have been coming from different parts of the country. We must not go on with hate speeches. We know that occasionally tempers can rise, but even if that happens there are languages we should not use on one another. We should exercise a lot of restraint as we communicate with each other. If we can toe this path in discussing national issues I am confident that the key issues bedeviling our federal structure will be addressed and we will have a better functioning federal structure. It is achievable. Others have achieved it and there is no reason why we cannot achieve it.
The question would be for the 16 years the PDP ruled this country why was there no restructure in the sense you are talking about now to attain a perfect federal system?
Why did we convene two National Conferences? What is stopping the current government from continuing where we stopped? What is stopping them? We convened one in 2005 and 2014…
The implementation is the problem. PDP convened but didn’t implement. What stopped the PDP from implementing the first one for instance?
There were some constitutional amendments and I participated. Some of the amendments took part of the 2005 Conference report. There was another constitutional amendment which for a small reason President Goodluck Jonathan did not assent to and that has to do with the issue of enhancing federalism. It has to do with separating the Office of the Attorney-General from the Minister of Justice. It was a minor issue. So we have attempted, we have achieved up to some level. This question should not be addressed to us now. It should be addressed to the government which is in place now. But even if we did not achieve everything, assuming we achieved 20 to 30 percent, what effort is the current government doing to achieve more than we have achieved. I assure you that if PDP returns to power tomorrow we are going to build upon where we left. We will sit down with Nigerians on equal basis and discuss the kind of restructuring we agree upon and the one we desire.
Are we going to do that through a referendum?
Let Nigerians talk. When you are talking about this issue you should not be the one talking. Let people talk and come to some consensus and agreements. In principle we should just agree on the need for it. It is the outcome of the discussion that will tell you what should be done.
That is why I asked you if Sovereign national conference will not be the way to go in the circumstance
It is only under such discussions that you understand this matter can be raised.
And that is Sovereign National Conference
Sovereign National Conference when you have government institutions in place? I am not a legal expert, so I do not know whether that is workable. All I know is that whatever we want to discuss that is under this sun let us use good words. The key issue here is the word of communication. If we, north, south, east, west are insulting each other it will not help us. It will retard us. We must avoid insulting each other and avoid using hate languages in talking to one another. Let us bring out all the issues and problems. Nigerians are mature enough to discuss and find solutions to them.
Are you confident there will be a PDP tomorrow in view of what is happening to the party?
Well, when I was about marrying my wife she was Asma’u Magaji Mohammed. After marrying her she became Asma’u Ahmed Makarfi. But she still remains the human being, the Asma’u God created her. So whatever may happen, PDP will remain.